What you want to do and what you do, if you'll forgive my saying so, do seem to be two different things. For there is no doubt that you are in the polemic, and on an opposite side from mine.
It's a fair cop, mister. ;-)
I don't know enough about the Montanus theory to comment (that's the problem with arguing with a historian), but in the case of Paul of Samosata, the Antiochene synod had deposed him in favor of Domnus some time previously, and he managed to hang around in the bishop's palace because he was pals with the Palmyrene royalty. (Sort of like the recent spat in the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, substituting Irenaios for Paul and the Israel for Palmyra.) The synod sent letters to the bishops of Rome and Alexandria to have them strike Paul's name from the dyptichs and requesting letters of communion, and Eusebius quotes the letter in full. In other words, it was a jurisdictional (not theological) decision by a pagan emperor, from my reading.
In any case, if communion with Rome were necessary to hold the patriarchate and to die in communion with the church, we'd have to remove the names of several saints from the martyrology. For starters, St. Meletius, Patriarch of Antioch (who ordained St. John Chrysostom when Antioch was out of communion with Rome), St. Elias of Jerusalem, and St. Daniel the Stylite. The entire East (excepting Alexandria) recognized Meletius and Flavian as the true patriarchs in knowing opposition to Rome's man, Paulinus.
The Catholic doctrine is that recognition of a council by the Pope is necessary for its validity, but things weren't always so clear-cut. As (Catholic scholar) Francis Dvornik pointed out, the Pope approved the Council of 879-880 in Constantinople, and condemned the one ten years earlier as a robber synod—which remains the Orthodox position today. It was only centuries later that Rome reversed course.
You might find the idea that the keys weren't given exclusively to Peter strange, but surely it's nothing more than what Augustine believed, in saying that the keys were given to the whole Church.
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Re: The beliefs and actions of (a) character(s) are not automatically those of the author.
Date: 2008-04-29 03:22 pm (UTC)It's a fair cop, mister. ;-)
I don't know enough about the Montanus theory to comment (that's the problem with arguing with a historian), but in the case of Paul of Samosata, the Antiochene synod had deposed him in favor of Domnus some time previously, and he managed to hang around in the bishop's palace because he was pals with the Palmyrene royalty. (Sort of like the recent spat in the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, substituting Irenaios for Paul and the Israel for Palmyra.) The synod sent letters to the bishops of Rome and Alexandria to have them strike Paul's name from the dyptichs and requesting letters of communion, and Eusebius quotes the letter in full. In other words, it was a jurisdictional (not theological) decision by a pagan emperor, from my reading.
In any case, if communion with Rome were necessary to hold the patriarchate and to die in communion with the church, we'd have to remove the names of several saints from the martyrology. For starters, St. Meletius, Patriarch of Antioch (who ordained St. John Chrysostom when Antioch was out of communion with Rome), St. Elias of Jerusalem, and St. Daniel the Stylite. The entire East (excepting Alexandria) recognized Meletius and Flavian as the true patriarchs in knowing opposition to Rome's man, Paulinus.
The Catholic doctrine is that recognition of a council by the Pope is necessary for its validity, but things weren't always so clear-cut. As (Catholic scholar) Francis Dvornik pointed out, the Pope approved the Council of 879-880 in Constantinople, and condemned the one ten years earlier as a robber synod—which remains the Orthodox position today. It was only centuries later that Rome reversed course.
You might find the idea that the keys weren't given exclusively to Peter strange, but surely it's nothing more than what Augustine believed, in saying that the keys were given to the whole Church.