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I have a suspicion that trouble with FA is about to flare up again
My older friends will remember the long war I had with a previous generation of FA moderators. Now I have lost my temper again, spectacularly and on their threads, and I suspect that it will make trouble.
I just read a chaptered fic (you will understand that I have no intention to increase the author's hit count, so we'll forget the name and title) which contains the following passage (behind lj-cut):
"Precisely," Caitlin smiled thinly. "And if it sounds horrible to you, think what a mage would think, coming from a community where you had magical privies that made the waste disappear, mud resistant robes, cures for most diseases known to the Muggles, a non-existent infant mortality rate, nice clean stone buildings for everyone, house elves that kept everything sanitary using magic and a standard of living not far off what you're both used to. I'm telling you, the phrase 'filthy Muggles' wasn't abuse back then, it was a fact. Of course the mages of the day felt they were superior - why wouldn't they? The poorest mage lived better than a Muggle king. Salazar was only different in that his attitudes were more extreme and professed more openly. He wasn't interested in saving Muggles from themselves, and he certainly didn't want their children around, with their insistence in only one god, and eternal damnation for those who didn't follow him, and that magic users not sanctioned by their High Priest in Rome were going straight to Hell. Actually can't say I entirely blame him on that score," she said with a grin.
Luella had to admit that being told that your magic was evil on a daily basis would probably annoy even the most patient of mages.
"But that doesn't mean being a Muggle-born makes you inferior!" she responded.
"Well, of course not," Caitlin replied. "Times have changed, and so have Muggles. Most love the idea of magic. That weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult has lost its hold on their minds. And perhaps most importantly, they've discovered science, and it's given them power equal to ours in a way. No, Luella, in no way do I think Muggles are inferior. But back then, Salazar had some good points, and a lot of mages agreed with him, up until the point where he started secretly advocating the extermination of Muggle-borns, and the banning of mage-Muggle marriages, or at least severely restricting them to suitable candidates. That was when he crossed the line, and that's when war broke out, and Salazar got thrown out of Hogwarts. Battles were fought, alliances were made and broken, and a particularly nasty bloodfeud ensued that endures to this day. Salazar, I might add, lost, although his House stayed. Enough of them repented or stayed loyal to make it worthwhile keeping it. After all, Salazar Slytherin was still a Founder. But from then on, Slytherin House was seen as different, marked out by its past. At best, a house to be wary of, at worst the source of everything evil. Dark mages from Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are overlooked or explained away as having had a traumatic past. Dark Slytherins have always been blown up into terrifying figures of absolute evil. Their Dark Mages are seen as one-offs, aberrations. Ours are seen as typical Slytherins. Until the 1970's, we Slytherins have always put up with the prejudice and just got on with our lives. We dealt with it by consoling ourselves that our house may be evil but at least we were the talented ones. That's why we're noted for our ambition: we start out automatically disadvantaged and work twice as hard to catch up. We've all got something to prove. We've been hated but we get by....
I found this not only offensive but a genuine instance of hate speech, including evident racist overtones (apparently being "middle eastern" is bad) and a loathsome misrepresentation of historical fact. I let the author know in the comments thread, and added a warning against this fic in the thread where I had originally found the link. Now it all depends on whether the moderators think this is, a), flaming, and, b), not justified by the evident and contemptible hate speech in the fic. Either way, I really do not think I intend to retract a single word.
I just read a chaptered fic (you will understand that I have no intention to increase the author's hit count, so we'll forget the name and title) which contains the following passage (behind lj-cut):
"Precisely," Caitlin smiled thinly. "And if it sounds horrible to you, think what a mage would think, coming from a community where you had magical privies that made the waste disappear, mud resistant robes, cures for most diseases known to the Muggles, a non-existent infant mortality rate, nice clean stone buildings for everyone, house elves that kept everything sanitary using magic and a standard of living not far off what you're both used to. I'm telling you, the phrase 'filthy Muggles' wasn't abuse back then, it was a fact. Of course the mages of the day felt they were superior - why wouldn't they? The poorest mage lived better than a Muggle king. Salazar was only different in that his attitudes were more extreme and professed more openly. He wasn't interested in saving Muggles from themselves, and he certainly didn't want their children around, with their insistence in only one god, and eternal damnation for those who didn't follow him, and that magic users not sanctioned by their High Priest in Rome were going straight to Hell. Actually can't say I entirely blame him on that score," she said with a grin.
Luella had to admit that being told that your magic was evil on a daily basis would probably annoy even the most patient of mages.
"But that doesn't mean being a Muggle-born makes you inferior!" she responded.
"Well, of course not," Caitlin replied. "Times have changed, and so have Muggles. Most love the idea of magic. That weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult has lost its hold on their minds. And perhaps most importantly, they've discovered science, and it's given them power equal to ours in a way. No, Luella, in no way do I think Muggles are inferior. But back then, Salazar had some good points, and a lot of mages agreed with him, up until the point where he started secretly advocating the extermination of Muggle-borns, and the banning of mage-Muggle marriages, or at least severely restricting them to suitable candidates. That was when he crossed the line, and that's when war broke out, and Salazar got thrown out of Hogwarts. Battles were fought, alliances were made and broken, and a particularly nasty bloodfeud ensued that endures to this day. Salazar, I might add, lost, although his House stayed. Enough of them repented or stayed loyal to make it worthwhile keeping it. After all, Salazar Slytherin was still a Founder. But from then on, Slytherin House was seen as different, marked out by its past. At best, a house to be wary of, at worst the source of everything evil. Dark mages from Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are overlooked or explained away as having had a traumatic past. Dark Slytherins have always been blown up into terrifying figures of absolute evil. Their Dark Mages are seen as one-offs, aberrations. Ours are seen as typical Slytherins. Until the 1970's, we Slytherins have always put up with the prejudice and just got on with our lives. We dealt with it by consoling ourselves that our house may be evil but at least we were the talented ones. That's why we're noted for our ambition: we start out automatically disadvantaged and work twice as hard to catch up. We've all got something to prove. We've been hated but we get by....
I found this not only offensive but a genuine instance of hate speech, including evident racist overtones (apparently being "middle eastern" is bad) and a loathsome misrepresentation of historical fact. I let the author know in the comments thread, and added a warning against this fic in the thread where I had originally found the link. Now it all depends on whether the moderators think this is, a), flaming, and, b), not justified by the evident and contemptible hate speech in the fic. Either way, I really do not think I intend to retract a single word.
Re: The beliefs and actions of (a) character(s) are not automatically those of the author.
It's a fair cop, mister. ;-)
I don't know enough about the Montanus theory to comment (that's the problem with arguing with a historian), but in the case of Paul of Samosata, the Antiochene synod had deposed him in favor of Domnus some time previously, and he managed to hang around in the bishop's palace because he was pals with the Palmyrene royalty. (Sort of like the recent spat in the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, substituting Irenaios for Paul and the Israel for Palmyra.) The synod sent letters to the bishops of Rome and Alexandria to have them strike Paul's name from the dyptichs and requesting letters of communion, and Eusebius quotes the letter in full. In other words, it was a jurisdictional (not theological) decision by a pagan emperor, from my reading.
In any case, if communion with Rome were necessary to hold the patriarchate and to die in communion with the church, we'd have to remove the names of several saints from the martyrology. For starters, St. Meletius, Patriarch of Antioch (who ordained St. John Chrysostom when Antioch was out of communion with Rome), St. Elias of Jerusalem, and St. Daniel the Stylite. The entire East (excepting Alexandria) recognized Meletius and Flavian as the true patriarchs in knowing opposition to Rome's man, Paulinus.
The Catholic doctrine is that recognition of a council by the Pope is necessary for its validity, but things weren't always so clear-cut. As (Catholic scholar) Francis Dvornik pointed out, the Pope approved the Council of 879-880 in Constantinople, and condemned the one ten years earlier as a robber synod—which remains the Orthodox position today. It was only centuries later that Rome reversed course.
You might find the idea that the keys weren't given exclusively to Peter strange, but surely it's nothing more than what Augustine believed, in saying that the keys were given to the whole Church.
Re: The beliefs and actions of (a) character(s) are not automatically those of the author.
(Incidentally... the whole East "except Alexandria"... the see of Athanasius and Cyril... an exception of some weight, wouldn't you say?)
I would like to have more context about what St.Augustine (who certainly believed in Rome's jurisdictional primacy) said about giving the keys to the whole Church. There is an undefined Catholic doctrine of infallibility in the Church, which Pope John Paul II referred to in the matter of the ordination of women; it hardly seems to contradict the infallibility vested in the See, except that that particular doctrine was defined by the First Vatican Council.