An abominable genre
Jul. 19th, 2004 09:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fpbI am an unashamed Harry Potter fan and keen fan writer and reader. Nevertheless, there is one sub-genre I will never touch, that I have never read nor reviewed nor ever will, that I loathe from the depths of my soul: Marauders slash. Other kinds of slash I can put up with; indeed, I tend to write a gay Harry myself. But this particular slash seems to me revolting, an assault not only on the characters and their relationship, but on a basic kind of human decency and kindness on which rests much of our happiness on this Earth.
In Joanne K.Rowling's novels, the Marauders are a group of four teen-age friends at Hogwarts School of Wizardry and Witchcraft. The group forms when childhood friends Sirius Black and James Potter, the stars of their year, handsome and successful, befriend the lonely Remus Lupin and accept the somewhat star-struck friendship of the feeble Peter Pettigrew, a fat little boy with a need for strong friends. Remus is a boy with a terrible secret (he is a werewolf); his friends discover it, and, far from rejecting him, support him. The whole is a celebration of what a blessing is a warm, unconditional friendship for a lonely teen-ager. Friendship is the operative word: the four are happiest together, pulling pranks and breaking rules, learning magic and playing Quidditch.
I do not think I give much away when I say that this depiction of free, warm, luminous friendship, of the happiness of meeting and talking and doing things together, means an enormous amount to me. Friendship has been one of the great things in my life, and I regard it not only as a source of joy but as a positive value.
Anyone who reduces this world of mutual unselfish contact to sexual desire simply has no idea what friendship is about; has never had a friend, and is probably incapable of having any. As for the Marauders themselves, anyone who has read JKR's wonderful account of what the friendship and acceptance of James, Sirius and Peter meant for him in his loneliness, and still can conceive of their relationship as in any way sexual, is as grossly insensitive a reader as anyone can conceive. It simply shows a brute failure to understand any of the higher functions of human nature; a failure which is first and foremost a failure of taste, a failure to understand and appreciate what is in front of their eyes. A good book is a shared experience, an experience in which the author involves the reader. A reader who claims to love what the author has done, and yet, in her own work (for, in this case, it is pretty nearly always a woman), distorts or perverts the very experience that the author provided - in this case, the splendour and refuge of friendship, the discovery of this wonderful world of equals in one's teens - is a person who is not only out of touch with the author, but with herself. She has read; she has had the experience; she has even enjoyed it. Yet, when it comes to elaborating the experience in her own words and adding to it, she does not elaborate, but perverts it. She has failed to appreciate her own experience; in effect, she is lying to herself about herself. The failure is a failure of the self, even before it becomes a failure in relating with others.
This is not only, of course, in evidence in the miserable and ever-growing breed of Marauder slash fics. Just as blatant is the sheer and incomprehensible refusal to come to terms with what the character of Draco Malfoy represents. Anyone with a sane appreciation of storytelling would think that, after the events of ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, it would be impossible to conceive of Draco as anything but a particularly loathsome villain. Every sentence Mrs.Rowling puts in his mouth deepens his moral abjection. He is not only a monster, but a recognizable monster: my God, how many Dracones there are in classrooms and offices, workplaces and clubs, families and regiments. And yet the tide of "redeemed Draco" fics keeps flowing relentlessly onwards, and hundreds of writers write as if it was simply natural that this loathsome toad of a boy, who has done enough to imprint himself indelibly in the memory of all his victims, will marry either Ginny or Hermione or have a homosexual relationship with Harry. (An admittedly brilliant variation, in the context of an excellent story, has him in bed with Neville Longbottom.) Not only is this perversion of the Rowling canon carried out routinely, but it is treated as obvious, as natural; most writers of Draco/Ginny and Draco/Hermione romance fics hardly feel the need to justify their stories.
Nonetheless, there is more to be said in favour of redeemed-Draco fics than of Marauders slash. For one thing, the idea of former enemies getting either physically or metaphorically in bed has an undeniable piquancy; and the better redeemed-Draco fics at least show him dealing one way or another with his abominable previous character.
But for Marauder slash there is no justification. It is simply the result of a brutal and narrow, old-maidish mentality, that cannot see a few men showing a pleasure for each other's company without imagining that sex must be at the heart of it. And as this kind of fic is written largely by women, one also suspects a sort of creeping suspicion and jealousy for an all-male circle of friends: the writer sees a group of men going out alone together - of course, they have to have a reason other than just pleasure in each other's company! Of course, sex is at the bottom of this. After all, we know that men are incapable of thinking of anything else.... Well, actually, experience of certain female writers on the FICTION ALLEY site has convinced me that it is a certain kind of woman who is incapable of thinking of anything except in sexual terms. I will say no more about this; and as this entry has already taken so much space, there will be no piece of writing other than this today.
In Joanne K.Rowling's novels, the Marauders are a group of four teen-age friends at Hogwarts School of Wizardry and Witchcraft. The group forms when childhood friends Sirius Black and James Potter, the stars of their year, handsome and successful, befriend the lonely Remus Lupin and accept the somewhat star-struck friendship of the feeble Peter Pettigrew, a fat little boy with a need for strong friends. Remus is a boy with a terrible secret (he is a werewolf); his friends discover it, and, far from rejecting him, support him. The whole is a celebration of what a blessing is a warm, unconditional friendship for a lonely teen-ager. Friendship is the operative word: the four are happiest together, pulling pranks and breaking rules, learning magic and playing Quidditch.
I do not think I give much away when I say that this depiction of free, warm, luminous friendship, of the happiness of meeting and talking and doing things together, means an enormous amount to me. Friendship has been one of the great things in my life, and I regard it not only as a source of joy but as a positive value.
Anyone who reduces this world of mutual unselfish contact to sexual desire simply has no idea what friendship is about; has never had a friend, and is probably incapable of having any. As for the Marauders themselves, anyone who has read JKR's wonderful account of what the friendship and acceptance of James, Sirius and Peter meant for him in his loneliness, and still can conceive of their relationship as in any way sexual, is as grossly insensitive a reader as anyone can conceive. It simply shows a brute failure to understand any of the higher functions of human nature; a failure which is first and foremost a failure of taste, a failure to understand and appreciate what is in front of their eyes. A good book is a shared experience, an experience in which the author involves the reader. A reader who claims to love what the author has done, and yet, in her own work (for, in this case, it is pretty nearly always a woman), distorts or perverts the very experience that the author provided - in this case, the splendour and refuge of friendship, the discovery of this wonderful world of equals in one's teens - is a person who is not only out of touch with the author, but with herself. She has read; she has had the experience; she has even enjoyed it. Yet, when it comes to elaborating the experience in her own words and adding to it, she does not elaborate, but perverts it. She has failed to appreciate her own experience; in effect, she is lying to herself about herself. The failure is a failure of the self, even before it becomes a failure in relating with others.
This is not only, of course, in evidence in the miserable and ever-growing breed of Marauder slash fics. Just as blatant is the sheer and incomprehensible refusal to come to terms with what the character of Draco Malfoy represents. Anyone with a sane appreciation of storytelling would think that, after the events of ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, it would be impossible to conceive of Draco as anything but a particularly loathsome villain. Every sentence Mrs.Rowling puts in his mouth deepens his moral abjection. He is not only a monster, but a recognizable monster: my God, how many Dracones there are in classrooms and offices, workplaces and clubs, families and regiments. And yet the tide of "redeemed Draco" fics keeps flowing relentlessly onwards, and hundreds of writers write as if it was simply natural that this loathsome toad of a boy, who has done enough to imprint himself indelibly in the memory of all his victims, will marry either Ginny or Hermione or have a homosexual relationship with Harry. (An admittedly brilliant variation, in the context of an excellent story, has him in bed with Neville Longbottom.) Not only is this perversion of the Rowling canon carried out routinely, but it is treated as obvious, as natural; most writers of Draco/Ginny and Draco/Hermione romance fics hardly feel the need to justify their stories.
Nonetheless, there is more to be said in favour of redeemed-Draco fics than of Marauders slash. For one thing, the idea of former enemies getting either physically or metaphorically in bed has an undeniable piquancy; and the better redeemed-Draco fics at least show him dealing one way or another with his abominable previous character.
But for Marauder slash there is no justification. It is simply the result of a brutal and narrow, old-maidish mentality, that cannot see a few men showing a pleasure for each other's company without imagining that sex must be at the heart of it. And as this kind of fic is written largely by women, one also suspects a sort of creeping suspicion and jealousy for an all-male circle of friends: the writer sees a group of men going out alone together - of course, they have to have a reason other than just pleasure in each other's company! Of course, sex is at the bottom of this. After all, we know that men are incapable of thinking of anything else.... Well, actually, experience of certain female writers on the FICTION ALLEY site has convinced me that it is a certain kind of woman who is incapable of thinking of anything except in sexual terms. I will say no more about this; and as this entry has already taken so much space, there will be no piece of writing other than this today.
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no subject
Date: 2004-07-23 07:50 pm (UTC)James/Sirius and James/Remus are real weird though. I mean, James married Lily, so (duh again) he likes girls. It's right there in the books. But it isn't the same with Remus and Sirius.
So I sort of see what you mean and sort of don't.
FYI - I'm only commenting because I miss my friends and thought you might profit by their story. Bye!
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 01:25 pm (UTC)Now, having no background to your reading or slashing experience I'm afraid I can't bring specific pairings that you favor into this argument, but I hope you still hear me out.
Based on you logic, how could anyone pair Harry and Ron? Or Harry and anyone who's nice to him? Or Dean and Seamus? Ron and Hermione? Aren't their canon relationships all based on friendship? How is that so different from the MWPP era fiction?
I also think you have a misunderstanding of much of the MWPP fic. By your own admission you have never read nor 'touched' any MWPP fiction. How do you know the basis for it?
While admittedly there are those who only write PWP or fluff or smut in the era, that's not the basis for why people write these fics. They see this wonderful relationship between the four boys that is based on all of the higher human emotions that you so eloquently stated above. They see Sirius and James as the 'stars of their year' and their kindness in befriending two loners in their house. These people don't believe that their friendships are based on sex, they just see the possibility that this 'depiction of free, warm, luminous friendship' could breed another of the higher human emotions, namely love. How is that perverted or wrong?
I also have to raise a point about your dislike of Draco. He's admittedly a bastard in canon, but that's how Rowling writes all of her dark characters. She has a penchant for two dimensionalizing characters she doesn't like and discrediting their possibilities. Regardless to this fact, I still think he'd be a bastard, but thats not why I like him in fiction. There's only one simple reason I do: he has possibility. Canon!Draco has a whole side to him that simply never gets explored. There are so many possibilities and directions to take with his character. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of redeemed!Draco. I just feel that he has options Rowling won't take. As both a reader and a writer I couldn't possibly pass that up.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 01:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 02:02 pm (UTC)Look, I cannot imagine what you are doing on my LJ in my first place. I've had a look at yours, and it is obvious that you and I have nothing to say to each other. I think we are wasting our time, and you obviously have not the slightest idea of what I base my arguments on. Until you do, you are simply wasting your time. And when you do, you will probably conclude that there is no point writing to me.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 05:20 pm (UTC)But (you saw it coming. You know it, I had but face) I really have to disagree. I do understand where you're coming from about the whole "reducing friendship to sexual desire" thing. But that is a bit of a generalization. I know for a fact that not all Marauder slash out there is just Sirius and James going "oh em gee you are so hawt lykwo lets screw." Most of what I have read is two of the characters realizing that maybe what they feel for each other is more than friendship. This is no more wrong than Harry and Hermione realizing the same thing. The two characters slashed may have sexual desire for each other but this in no way means they aren't friends anymore.
It seems like what you're saying is that because the two characters have had sex together they can't still have that same fantastic bond of friendship that you seem to love so much. Two people in love (or lust) can't be friends? When did this happen, and why didn't I get the memo?
I get that some of the fiction out there is purely for the sake of some english guy on english guy action but you are generalizing and frankly that pisses me off. Feel free to rant at me but please, let me keep my respect for you and respond intelligently if anything?
Love and Waffles
Falco Conlon
PS I agree about the redeeming draco thing. What a load of crap. The guy is evil, get over it.
PPS since when does a girl with a taste for hawt man six have a problem with all male groups of friends? Why can't she just like gay sex?
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 05:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 06:57 pm (UTC)I'm sorry, I must have been mistaken in that you were up for a debate. I didn't suppose we had much of anything in common, just thought you might be openminded.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 09:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 09:57 pm (UTC)This is a short answer because I do not have much time. Maybe I will give a more extensive one later. Meanwhile, thanks for treating me courteously in spite of the fact that we disagree so widely on such basic matters.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 05:17 am (UTC)Such a shame that you get so bent out of shape over differing views.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 05:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:01 am (UTC)Nope. To have a debate, you just need to be willing to listen to the other person without automatically taking it personally.
I cannot have much of a debate on sexual morality with anyone whose very idea of sex has nothing to do with mine.
So basically, you can't have a debate with someone unless they agree with you in some measure? Could you explain the logic there, as I'm just not seeing it.
until you understand where I am coming from, we have nothing to say to each other
Actually, I do see where you're coming from; I just disagree with your ideas. In any event, your comment betrays the fact that your position is intransigent, ergo you are not prepared to discuss your ideas. You could have saved yourself a lot of grief by just adding to the end of your entry:
Nothing I say is open for discussion.
Intransigence, by the way, is a sign of a closed mind.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:40 am (UTC)Of course people have to agree with each other in some measure to have a debate at all. Assuming that you are not a Fascist, have you ever tried to have a debate with one? Or with a radical Muslim? One only does that sort of thing it one is deluded; or if one likes the sound of one's voice.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 07:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 08:16 am (UTC)Absolutely. Shows that I can find new ideas, read them, understand them and disagree without making it a personal attack. Plus it's something for me to do until the new term starts.
Assuming that you are not a Fascist, have you ever tried to have a debate with one? Or with a radical Muslim? One only does that sort of thing it one is deluded; or if one likes the sound of one's voice.
You do realise that that sentence could be read as you equating yourself with Fascists and radical Muslims, don't you?
To pick up on that point though, it *is* actually possible to have a debate with a radical Muslim without agreeing with anything that they say in the first place. The key is to understand from the outset that you're not actually going to change their mind and to use the experience to better understand their position. In any event, most of the Muslims I know (including my boyfriend) are more than happy to debate and discuss their ideas, without expecting you to convert to their viewpoint. Fascists, I have less experience with but I suspect it all comes down to how dogmatic they are.
It's a pity that you put thought into your posts but then don't want to engage in a defense of them. But hey - your LJ and all that.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 08:18 am (UTC)No, the reason you are receiving so many replies to this particular post is because it is fandom related. I would say most of, or at least half of LJ is invovled with the fandom. When one posts something especially wanky that is fandom related, it gets called on for being so. It's kind of like responsible government. :p
If you want people to comment on your other posts, you must make friends. How do you expect people to just wander randomly here to read your posts about "the British ruling class, GKC, etc? By clicking the random LJ feature? There are over 4 million accounts.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 08:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 08:27 am (UTC)HP fanfic discussion
Date: 2004-08-20 09:54 am (UTC)