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[personal profile] fpb
Four years ago, the government of the French Republic took the lead in refusing to support the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq. The French, who had taken a very active and successful part in the first Iraq war, simply did not think that an invasion followed by the occupation of an Arab country was a good idea. That was their prerogative (see under "sovereign state").

(My position was that I loathed Saddam Hussein so much that anyone who wanted to drive him out was fine by me. I would even have supported an Iranian invasion. But I would not have started to insult people who disagreed.)

The idiot part of the American right suddenly made France the bout of all their hatred. Someone spotted a market opportunity, as Americans do (the French do that as well, but when the French do it, that's evil!) and prostituted a certain amount of historical knowledge in the search for a quick buck, producing some sort of tract which rewrote history with the claim that "France have always been our enemy, but they have concealed it under a pretence of friendship".

I would dismiss this intellectually contemptible and factually fraudulent thesis in as many words, and not even bother about it, were it not that one of the finest minds in my f-list seems to have been taken in by it. As it is, I want to ask how you imagine you can trace a consistent attitude of hatred, and what is more, of subtly disguised hatred, in a nation that has, since the foundation of the United States, experienced three royalist constitutions, five republican ones, two bonapartist ones, and one fascist tyranny, and completely boxed the compass in terms of attitudes, views, and alliances. This is the kind of things that rabid anti-Semites postulate about Jews - attitudes consistent across the centuries, constant vicious subtlety in carrying them out, hatred fertile in invention but completely barren of reason. The French ought to be proud: they have been promoted to the rank of Chosen People, next to that other target of unreasoning, blind, stupid, despicable hatred. In case anyone had any doubts, I regard Jew-bashing as a stain on the face of mankind.

No doubt the prostitute or prostitutes who set out on this bit of free enterprise got out of it what they wanted - money, admiting letters from ignorami and fanatics, and the odd spot on TV talk shows; rewards that serious historians get rather less often. But as we are still free people here, I want to use my own freedom of expression, rather less despicably than the prostitute or prostitutes concerned: first, by calling whoredom by its proper name; and second, by stating clearly that there shall be no pity here for such views. The historical slag or slags who sold their integrity for popular success will not be treated as anything but filth, and anyone who takes them seriously is warned that I will do what is in my power to restore them to sanity.

Date: 2007-04-16 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] superversive.livejournal.com
Evidently it is to me that you refer by this violent and ignorant caricature. I do not claim, nor do I know of anyone (‘neocon’ or not) who claims, that France has been the enemy of the United States for centuries. What I do claim, and on strong evidence, is that the ostensible alliance between the two countries has masked an increasing and fundamental conflict in recent years, and that by the time Jacques Chirac made himself the vocal (though only verbal) defender of the Hussein regime, France was no more an ally of the U.S. than Russia or China. The U.S. has not claimed to be in alliance with either of those powers at any time since 1949, and it seems clear to me that its pretence of continued alliance with France is kept up chiefly to avoid the diplomatic consequences of an open rupture.

The idea that I believe in some kind of ‘Protocols of the Elders of Paris’, or find some sinister and age-old conspiracy in the acts of the various French governments since the American war of independence, is your own fabrication entirely.

Date: 2007-04-16 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kulibali.livejournal.com
The French oil company TotalFinaElf had the exclusive contract for Iraq's oil fields should the UN sanctions be dissolved.

While France was opposing the Iraq invasion, they were unilaterally invading Cote d'Ivoire, including destroying the air force of the legitimate government (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526243), and massacring peaceful protesters (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3997885.stm).

In addition, during the 1990s, 60 percent of tropical hardwood sold in France came from the warlords of civil-war-torn Liberia (in John-Peter Pham, _Liberia, Portrait of a Failed State_).

This may not say anything about France's status as a ally of the US, but it says a lot about its stance as an upright and responsible member of the international community.

Date: 2007-04-16 07:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dirigibletrance.livejournal.com
While indeed it was a bit silly to say that France has always been our enemy (if they're our enemy at all, it's only recently), I also have to wonder if, perhaps, France's own motives for opposing the invasion were so pure either.

Standing against what can easily be portrayed as American tyranny and Imperialism is an easy way to create an opposing political block on the world scene. France has a huge amount of influence in the EU, and to some extent the policies that they set, the rest of the countries are likely to follow. They might find it convinient to begin setting the EU on a track towards opposing the United States.

It would, after all, benefit them economically in the long run. Creating an alternative, second Superpower in the world, in the form of the EU, would mean that many smaller countries no longer feel the need to Kowtow to America, that alternative markets exist for goods, and that America, itself, will have to walk a little softer from now on.

Just saying, France is no saintly country either. Had they the chance, I don't doubt that they'd gladly exchange places and power with the United States, and proceed to act in exactly the same way that the US has.

Date: 2007-04-16 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com
Sicily was once Muslim. Continental Southern Italy never was, except for a few brief occupations of coastal cities.

... and Italy is prepared to yield Sicily and some "coastal cities" to a resurgant Caliphate?

If not, it is in Italy's interest that America kill the Beast from the East in the womb.

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