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fpbMy older friends will remember the long war I had with a previous generation of FA moderators. Now I have lost my temper again, spectacularly and on their threads, and I suspect that it will make trouble.
I just read a chaptered fic (you will understand that I have no intention to increase the author's hit count, so we'll forget the name and title) which contains the following passage (behind lj-cut):
"Precisely," Caitlin smiled thinly. "And if it sounds horrible to you, think what a mage would think, coming from a community where you had magical privies that made the waste disappear, mud resistant robes, cures for most diseases known to the Muggles, a non-existent infant mortality rate, nice clean stone buildings for everyone, house elves that kept everything sanitary using magic and a standard of living not far off what you're both used to. I'm telling you, the phrase 'filthy Muggles' wasn't abuse back then, it was a fact. Of course the mages of the day felt they were superior - why wouldn't they? The poorest mage lived better than a Muggle king. Salazar was only different in that his attitudes were more extreme and professed more openly. He wasn't interested in saving Muggles from themselves, and he certainly didn't want their children around, with their insistence in only one god, and eternal damnation for those who didn't follow him, and that magic users not sanctioned by their High Priest in Rome were going straight to Hell. Actually can't say I entirely blame him on that score," she said with a grin.
Luella had to admit that being told that your magic was evil on a daily basis would probably annoy even the most patient of mages.
"But that doesn't mean being a Muggle-born makes you inferior!" she responded.
"Well, of course not," Caitlin replied. "Times have changed, and so have Muggles. Most love the idea of magic. That weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult has lost its hold on their minds. And perhaps most importantly, they've discovered science, and it's given them power equal to ours in a way. No, Luella, in no way do I think Muggles are inferior. But back then, Salazar had some good points, and a lot of mages agreed with him, up until the point where he started secretly advocating the extermination of Muggle-borns, and the banning of mage-Muggle marriages, or at least severely restricting them to suitable candidates. That was when he crossed the line, and that's when war broke out, and Salazar got thrown out of Hogwarts. Battles were fought, alliances were made and broken, and a particularly nasty bloodfeud ensued that endures to this day. Salazar, I might add, lost, although his House stayed. Enough of them repented or stayed loyal to make it worthwhile keeping it. After all, Salazar Slytherin was still a Founder. But from then on, Slytherin House was seen as different, marked out by its past. At best, a house to be wary of, at worst the source of everything evil. Dark mages from Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are overlooked or explained away as having had a traumatic past. Dark Slytherins have always been blown up into terrifying figures of absolute evil. Their Dark Mages are seen as one-offs, aberrations. Ours are seen as typical Slytherins. Until the 1970's, we Slytherins have always put up with the prejudice and just got on with our lives. We dealt with it by consoling ourselves that our house may be evil but at least we were the talented ones. That's why we're noted for our ambition: we start out automatically disadvantaged and work twice as hard to catch up. We've all got something to prove. We've been hated but we get by....
I found this not only offensive but a genuine instance of hate speech, including evident racist overtones (apparently being "middle eastern" is bad) and a loathsome misrepresentation of historical fact. I let the author know in the comments thread, and added a warning against this fic in the thread where I had originally found the link. Now it all depends on whether the moderators think this is, a), flaming, and, b), not justified by the evident and contemptible hate speech in the fic. Either way, I really do not think I intend to retract a single word.
I just read a chaptered fic (you will understand that I have no intention to increase the author's hit count, so we'll forget the name and title) which contains the following passage (behind lj-cut):
"Precisely," Caitlin smiled thinly. "And if it sounds horrible to you, think what a mage would think, coming from a community where you had magical privies that made the waste disappear, mud resistant robes, cures for most diseases known to the Muggles, a non-existent infant mortality rate, nice clean stone buildings for everyone, house elves that kept everything sanitary using magic and a standard of living not far off what you're both used to. I'm telling you, the phrase 'filthy Muggles' wasn't abuse back then, it was a fact. Of course the mages of the day felt they were superior - why wouldn't they? The poorest mage lived better than a Muggle king. Salazar was only different in that his attitudes were more extreme and professed more openly. He wasn't interested in saving Muggles from themselves, and he certainly didn't want their children around, with their insistence in only one god, and eternal damnation for those who didn't follow him, and that magic users not sanctioned by their High Priest in Rome were going straight to Hell. Actually can't say I entirely blame him on that score," she said with a grin.
Luella had to admit that being told that your magic was evil on a daily basis would probably annoy even the most patient of mages.
"But that doesn't mean being a Muggle-born makes you inferior!" she responded.
"Well, of course not," Caitlin replied. "Times have changed, and so have Muggles. Most love the idea of magic. That weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult has lost its hold on their minds. And perhaps most importantly, they've discovered science, and it's given them power equal to ours in a way. No, Luella, in no way do I think Muggles are inferior. But back then, Salazar had some good points, and a lot of mages agreed with him, up until the point where he started secretly advocating the extermination of Muggle-borns, and the banning of mage-Muggle marriages, or at least severely restricting them to suitable candidates. That was when he crossed the line, and that's when war broke out, and Salazar got thrown out of Hogwarts. Battles were fought, alliances were made and broken, and a particularly nasty bloodfeud ensued that endures to this day. Salazar, I might add, lost, although his House stayed. Enough of them repented or stayed loyal to make it worthwhile keeping it. After all, Salazar Slytherin was still a Founder. But from then on, Slytherin House was seen as different, marked out by its past. At best, a house to be wary of, at worst the source of everything evil. Dark mages from Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are overlooked or explained away as having had a traumatic past. Dark Slytherins have always been blown up into terrifying figures of absolute evil. Their Dark Mages are seen as one-offs, aberrations. Ours are seen as typical Slytherins. Until the 1970's, we Slytherins have always put up with the prejudice and just got on with our lives. We dealt with it by consoling ourselves that our house may be evil but at least we were the talented ones. That's why we're noted for our ambition: we start out automatically disadvantaged and work twice as hard to catch up. We've all got something to prove. We've been hated but we get by....
I found this not only offensive but a genuine instance of hate speech, including evident racist overtones (apparently being "middle eastern" is bad) and a loathsome misrepresentation of historical fact. I let the author know in the comments thread, and added a warning against this fic in the thread where I had originally found the link. Now it all depends on whether the moderators think this is, a), flaming, and, b), not justified by the evident and contemptible hate speech in the fic. Either way, I really do not think I intend to retract a single word.
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no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 08:21 am (UTC)Should I have ever tried my hand at HP fiction, it is just the sort of thing I could imagine a 'good' Syltherin character saying towards the beginning of a story. Simply to display that while they were otherwise a 'good' person, they retained areas of prejudice from their background.
What would be interesting to read would be your response on the thread, and I'd be very interested to know what you think the FA moderators should do about the fic? (What is FA anyway?)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 08:31 am (UTC)I think your comparison is not really apt, since it assumes that the "good points" include calling Christianity a "weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult" that has now lost its hold on people. That is the equivalent of implying that Powell's views about people of another sort remain valid. Also, it as historically accurate. In forty years of increasing immigration, we certainly have not seen the river Thames - or any other - foaming with much blood: even the Brixton riots were mild affairs, by comparison not only with what is frequent in poorer countries, but even with the history of London itself (think of the Gordon riots). By the same token, to describe Christianity as a fading cult is self-deception on a monstrous scale.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 12:00 pm (UTC)Although I would separate out the "weird Middle Eastern crucifixion cult" phrase as it is obviously used in the context of a current idea, rather than one which was good in its time - although that may have been its origin.
Had I been writing the passage, I might have used that phrase to show that while the character is saying that the ideas of Salazar are out of date, she continues to share some of them. It demonstrates a type of casual cultural contempt very common today. The question is, is it the words of the character or the words of the writer. You'll be better able to judge having read more of the piece than any of us but I must admit that I don't see how someone defending the murder of muggles could be seen as anything other than, at the very least, a taint on their character.
I still wonder what it is you think should happen to this fic? Do you think it should be removed?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 12:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 11:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-30 07:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 11:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-30 07:17 am (UTC)In other words, a positive figure, however much she may have suffered and however much payback she may wish to inflict. That is interesting, since you and your friends have been arguing all along that it is incorrect to describe her viewpoint as that of a positive figure. Funny, that.