(no subject)

[fpb]

Anyone who thinks that I was too harsh about Jonah Goldberg's repulsive and politically motivated rewriting of my own country's history ought to read today's Thomas Sowell column, where it is taken entirely at its own valuation and highly recommended as summer reading for the children of conservatives. This unhistorical, culturally imperialistic propaganda, that distorts my country's and my continent's history in the service of provincial American concerns, is going to enter the bloodstream of a whole American party, If it has not already done so. This will increase further the mutual incomprehension between USA and Europe, because you cannot stand on your two hind legs and inform anyone who knows anything of continental history - France, Italy, Germany, etc. - that Nazism and Fascism were "left wing". This sort of rubbish, especially if spoken with the arrogance of Goldberg and Sowell, will increase European contempt for American viewpoints and culture. Do we really need this sort of trash further complicating our already difficult relationship, and all for the sake of a few Republican votes in the next election?

Comments

Re: The hard right and Fascism

[johncwright.livejournal.com]

What should I make of the fact that, if Fascism is to be called "Right" and is the contrary in everything in Socialism (Fascism being anti-egalitarian, class-conscious and paternalistic, and Socialism not), Fascism is also the contrary of everything in classical liberal notions of Republicanism (Fascism being anti-egalitarian, class-conscious and paternalistic, and Republicanism not)?

Republicanism, as I have said before, has been designed from the beginning to oppose every form of tyranny over the minds of men, and therefore to negate and to destroy absolute monarchies, absolute fascisms, absolute government in any form; to oppose any imposition on the Rights of Man; to oppose racism and proletarianism and every other form of collectivism; to protect private property, which both fascists and communists would invade; to protect the individual conscience from established churches, compulsory religion, and compulsory ideology -- Do you see my argument? I call fascism as heresy of socialism, a break-away movement. You say it is not, on the grounds that fascism opposed socialism in every way and was its antithesis. My argument is that Republicanism opposes fascism in every way and was its antithesis. I suggest that any political classification, any scheme of terminology, must take into account this fundamental antithesis. To call Republicanism a mild form of Fascism, a "middle Right" form of a "far Right" doctrine, does not take into account this fundamental antithesis.

I humbly suggest that fascism used republican social structures and ideas, the parliament, the industries, with the same calculated ruthlessness as you say it used socialist structures and ideas. Fascists said what they had to say to gain power, not because they were actually politically inclined to favor the traditional monarchic or the revolutionary republican forms of government. They hated Communism, but they had no love for Democracy.

I humbly suggest the fascist attitude toward the Church was equally calculated and insincere: which is why people to this day argue about whether fascism were really a Christian movement or not.

Do we have any leeway for agreement on any of these points?

Re: The hard right and Fascism

[fpb.livejournal.com]

You forget that there are such things as aristocratic republics - states without a monarch but with a limited franchise and a thorough grip of the institutions by an established aristocracy. The Republic of Venice used to be one such, and it has always been my contention that England/Britain has always been essentially an aristocratic republic with very thin monarchic trappings. Where does such a system, which, I repeat, is well established in European history, fit in your views?

Anyway, you almost seem to be arguing as though I had said that Fascism was a variety of Republicanism. That would be obvious nonsense (in spite of the presence in the party of such a man as Dr.Ron Paul, who would indubitably belong to the hard right in Europe). The Republican Party barely scratches the surface of the possible range of right-wing policies.

Re: The hard right and Fascism

[johncwright.livejournal.com]

"Where does such a system, which, I repeat, is well
established in European history, fit in your views?"

Ah, now this is the central question, and one where my views are difficult to explain. You see, I do not believe in the left-right spectrum. The spectrum is a propaganda trick invented by socialist writers for the purpose of putting across the erroneous and misleading political opinion that all politics could be and should be viewed through the lens of a single question: the politics that favored the current unjust powers-that-be, the Throne and Altar, were placed on the Right, and the politics that favored populist socialist progress were on the Left.

The assumption here, the assumption I do not grant, is that there is only one form of progress (pro-Socialist) and only one opposition to progress (Throne and Altar, the established privileges of the possessing and ruling classes, including the Captains of Industry).

For some reason that still puzzles me, the national socialist revolutionaries were placed on the reactionary Right, as if they supported the Ancient Regime, rather than in the moderate Left, as revolutionaries who wished partial, rather than total, destruction of the free market, and were willing to absorb and corrupt, rather than execute, the shopkeepers and factory owners.

You and I do not see eye to eye on this point, and I will defer to your greater knowledge of history. But I will not defer to your knowledge of economics and law, which is a particular area of my study: from a legal and from an economic standpoint, the laws and market regulations proposed by fascists (national socialists) are closer to the laws and market regulations proposed by communists (international socialists) than they are to those proposed by small-government, federalists, separation of powers, right of man style republics.

I would have to invent my own classification system of political opinions in order to capture the complexity of real world politics. Unfortunately, were I to do this, no one could follow what I was saying.

For better or worse, conservatives in America have adopted their enemy's terminology, for much the same reason, and with much the same error, as adopting the socialist terminology that describes the free market as "capitalism" -- as if the market place were a social mechanism designed only to benefit investors, rather than a natural institution which grows up around laws and customs respecting private property, and benefiting, to the degree imperfect human institutions can do, all comers.

To answer your question more directly, I would call aristocratic or plutocratic systems, such as constitutional monarchies with limited voter franchise, "Ancient Regimes", or I would use the term, "Weak Monarchies" or "Aristocracies" or even "Aristocratic Republics."

Or I would say that they are "On the Right" but I would then qualify the statement by saying "On the Right in the European sense of the Term" that is, a regime that perpetuated entrenched class distinctions, encouraged inequalities, used the law as an obstacle to keep the lower classes and the possessing classes separate.

more below

Re: The hard right and Fascism

[johncwright.livejournal.com]

"Anyway, you almost seem to be arguing as though I had said that Fascism was a variety of Republicanism. That would be obvious nonsense."

I think this is exactly Mr. Goldberg's objection, as it is mine. I am tired of being called Fascist and lumped among them, merely because you socialists had a falling out among yourselves, and can think of no criticism to level against a free society, except to liken it to a totalitarianism, when it is the stark opposite of a totalitarianism.

Now, you never made this mistake. You were careful enough to distinguish between the varieties of "Right" even though you continue with the arrant nonsense of pretending Nazism is an extreme form of Republicanism, which is the same as calling Republicanism mild Nazism.

Let me express an objection to that. In order for something to be an extreme of something, it has to have a quality in excess that the moderate form contains in moderation. The quality you have selected is "conservativeness" or "reaction", that is, whether the party is loyal to the regime and customs of antiquity, the class structure, the aristocracy, the monarchy, the established church.

Since republicanism preaches the radical curtailing of government power to the limited sphere, and a radical dismantling of class and church privilege, and radical equality before the law, to the utter abolition of any special laws based on birth, an extreme form the this would be, at best, some form of Libertarianism or even Anarchism. An extreme form of republicanism is not monarchy.

By the normal "right-left" classification system, Nazis are those who use violent totalitarian means to protect the ancient regime against the radical revolutionaries of communism. This classification is false-to-facts. Mussolini supported or opposed Victor Emmanuel III when it suited him, and, as you know better than I, eventually established a rival government in the North under Nazi auspices. I do not doubt the dictator used the Monarchy when it suited him, but I do doubt that Mussolini was a Monarchist, or believe the theory of the divine right of kings or any theory like that. His call was for egalitarian unity: the bundle of sticks bound together so that they could not separately be broken. Fascism was populist and nationalist.

But let us not argue that point: even if I grant that Mussolini was a devoted Monarchist and not a dictator trying to reduce the crown to a figurehead, even if I grant this, it cannot be maintained that monarchists favor limited government, universal suffrage, the Rights of Man, free trade and free markets, freedom and speech press and religion, and the other hallmarks of what is called "the Right" in America. Republicanism is the enemy of Monarchy and Aristocracy, the enemy of class privilege and inequality. (Even if the so-called Republican party in the USA is not the enemy of class privilege and inequality. I am talking about the founding theory here, not the modern corruption.)

So, by this logic, if Nazism is (somehow) taken as an extreme and violent form of reactionary defense of the monarchy and the established church, republicanism cannot be taken as a mild and nonviolent form of defense of the monarchy and the established church, since republicanism preaches the radical abolition of crowns and the disestablishment of churches.

The left-right spectrum is nothing but an awkward way for socialists to lump all of their opponents together. Everyone who is pro-socialists is "Left"; the law-abiding parliamentary socialists are "Middle Left" and the violent authoritarian socialists are "far Left": and then, somehow, all opposition to socialism is lumped indiscriminately together on what is called the "Right", whether the opposition comes from a national socialist, a dictator, a king, a tribal chief, an emperor, a pope, an industrialist, a republican, a democrat, a libertarian, an anarchist, a Guelph, a Ghibelline, a Tory, an Ulsterman, an Eskimo, or an Elf.

It is simply a ridiculous and misleading classification system.