I just had a really nasty thought...

[fpb]

...an air accident such as that which beheaded Polish society yesterday would do next to nothing to Britain. It is impossible for me to feel that the country would greatly miss any of its leading politicians, bureaucrats, military commanders, etc. Perhaps a few of the private people who were on the flight - relatives of the Katyn victims, celebrities such as the woman who started the Gdansk strike of 1980, etc - and perhaps one or two of the more impressive businessmen. And the Queen, if she was there. But personally I could witness the beheading of the military, the police, the legislative, executive and judiciary powers, and the media, with complete equanimity.

My God, what kind of a country in this, in which there is not a single leading figure worthy of respect?

Comments

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Britain is a country which has actively persecuted excellence for decades, and is reaping its reward.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Actually, I might miss the Minister of Transport - a youngish, quiet-spoken, balding former Blair adviser with the unfortunate name Lord Adonis, who is doing a good job and leaves a good impression. But crikey, one out of so many is not much!

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I was about to mention Adonis, who's perfectly competent, in mitigation...

[shezan.livejournal.com]

... one like France?

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I think people would miss BHL. And Carla Bruni.

Oh, wait, she's....

[affablestranger.livejournal.com]

Truly, I am of the opinion that most countries' populations would not *genuinely* mourn the loss of the vast majority of their so-called leadership and/or government.

I'm with you, sir. Generally speaking, I "could witness the beheading of the military, the police, the legislative, executive and judiciary powers, and the media, with complete equanimity."

[starshipcat.livejournal.com]

What worries me is that if something similar happened to our top leadership, there would be some people here who would actively rejoice and call it God's judgment upon the Administration for (fill in the blank).

Civil society can survive indifference toward a nation's leadership, but can it survive such active hostility that there is not even the willingness to go through the motions of respect to the office that was occupied by a person with whom one disagrees? And not just by a lunatic fringe, but by a substantial portion of the populace?

[amonseuldesir.livejournal.com]

Living in a place where leadership's incompetence leads directly to the abyss of disaster, and where there is very little respect for politicians - I still think you belittle the significance of the deadly disease called Patriotism, which bursts out in moments of dramatic events as in Smolensk.
Been there, seen that (and it's disgusting).

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I think we disagree about that.

[amonseuldesir.livejournal.com]

I am not sure I have made myself clear, but never mind, this is OK. Disagreement can be also fun when handled properly.

[sanscouronne.livejournal.com]

I am sure that you have legitimate distaste for the man, but I would be a little saddened to see Nigel Farage go. For entertainment purposes alone.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Nigel Farage is not yet high enough to be in that plane. And frankly, I would welcome him into Parliament. The main problem with the UK is the scary unanimity of the ruling classes. BBC-think is what they all think; there is no difference between Torlies, Labour and Lib Dems. Mr. Farage would bring a real opposition to WEstminster for the first time in twenty years.

[sanscouronne.livejournal.com]

Based on my vague impression of British politics, I'd say your assessment of the political class as being overly uniform is quite correct. That being said, I think that American politics suffers from the opposite problem: too many crazies and not enough moderation, which is viewed as traitorous to one's party.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

At least there is some real contention about real objects, instead of three wise monkeys in triplicate trying to sell themselves as better stewards of the economy. However, my feeling is that in these elections two or three new parties may well enter Parliament.

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

'what kind of a country in this, in which there is not a single leading figure worthy of respect?'
i'm wondering what you expect? some of the people of whom you write don't have a particularly high public profile and presumably had enough knowledge, skills, qualities, experience and ambition to get to the positions they hold. when they are in the public eye, it's almost always in the position of being on the receiving end of questioning because their specialism is the interest of the day. the queen, i think, is almost universally held in high regard, regardless of peoples' political views. i'd be amazed to find them all on one aircraft though.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Let me make it clearer. I despise, personally, as people, the current head of Scotland Yard, all the leaders of the British judiciary, nearly every person in government, nearly every prominent journalist, most business leaders, and nearly every opposition leader. There has been a reverse competition that has excluded every independent thinker and every person of dignity. Their views are as repulsive as their morals. In the next few days, the last Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, is going to appear in a trial along with half a dozen past and present Anglican bishops, to testify that in his opinion a series of judicial decisions have taken Christianity to the point of being outlawed in Great Britain, and that the current judiciary ought not to pass sentence on any case to do with religion, because they have proved viciously prejudiced. The same might be said for most of the other creatures I mentioned.

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

'In the next few days, the last Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, is going to appear in a trial along with half a dozen past and present Anglican bishops, to testify that in his opinion a series of judicial decisions have taken Christianity to the point of being outlawed in Great Britain, and that the current judiciary ought not to pass sentence on any case to do with religion, because they have proved viciously prejudiced.'

in which court? the creation of a precedent wouldn't necessarily stand and they know that the general synod could write law to present to parliament if they really took this issue seriously. tbh a lot of the noise just sounds like a pretty desperate attempt to make religous identity relevant in the modern day workplace, which it rarely is.

'I despise, personally, as people, the current head of Scotland Yard, all the leaders of the British judiciary, nearly every person in government, nearly every prominent journalist, most business leaders, and nearly every opposition leader.'
aside from laughing at this, because i can't see how you're in a position to make the judgement, either you're a militant extremist, plain mad or too hokey for words. either way, honestly, you really are beginning to frighten me.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=730
I live here. Do you? If you do and can honestly tell me that you think Labour, Cameroons and LibDems (with the exception of Vince Cable) anything more than empty shells, you must live in a world of motiveless bliss. As for Christian identity being irrelevant, the problem is that ignorance is the identity of the average Briton, thanks to rotten schooling and worse media. Anyone with an education, even an atheist, would recognize that Christian identity underlies the whole of Western culture. And if you worry about this kind of viewpoint, save yourself a lot of trouble, stay in your world of motiveless bliss, and leave my blog alone.

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

thanks for the link.
'I live here. Do you?'
yes i do, and whilst there are certain issues that bother me to a greater or lesser degree, i'm not particularly unhappy. i can certainly envisage things being a whole lot worse.

'honestly tell me that you think Labour, Cameroons and LibDems (with the exception of Vince Cable) anything more than empty shells'
ok, i think that government has a real ability to affect peoples' lives and chances positively either through legislation, execution of policy, driving economies, etc. and the government's actions speaks for itself. that until fairly recently there doesn't appear to be much of a difference between the parties implies that things haven't really been all that bad for the last ten years or so. now we're seeing quite large differences appearing as conservatives appear to be reverting to type and smiling nicely whilst justifying 'big society' as though it's a good thing - it'll never catch on...

'you must live in a world of motiveless bliss'
nope.

'As for Christian identity being irrelevant'
i wrote religious identity in the modern workplace and that it's rarely relevant. a very different position wouldn't you agree? when you are employed within some organistion, unless it is a faith based school, charity etc, you're not there to be a christian, sikh, jew, muslim, hindu, etc. you're there to provide a service or product. if those services are in any way dealing with sensitive issues, it's all the more important that it's done in a manner that is as unbiased as possible. if you are unable to do it because of your religious or moral stance - and it does happen - maybe the organisation can accomodate your problem, but that's not always possible and so perhaps you should find alternative employment? the issue with wearing crosses is pretty bloody stupid from both sides tbh, but i do think there's likely to be more to these cases than meets the eye.

'rotten schooling and worse media.'
no, your position suggests that you have very little to do with the education system - or experience of any other public, statutory or voluntary sector services for that matter - jury's out on the media though.

'Anyone with an education, even an atheist'
yes, after a fashion.

'would recognize that Christian identity underlies the whole of Western culture'
christian principles, yes absolutely, i'm not too sure that individual christian/religious identity has that much of an impact.

'if you worry about this kind of viewpoint'
i don't worry about the viewpoint, it's your excessively polemic presentation of it *here/uk* that bothers me, when i just don't recognise what you or others write about the matter as that convincing. i've asked you to support it, you don't. you don't seem to have any interest in an alternative interpretation or whether that may be reasonable. you massively overstated the boulder protest/riot, have a morbid religiosity - as evidenced by the excessively polemic presentation and have expressed an intention to carry out direct physical action against some poor soul you decided offended you and in addition you had a military training - paratrooper iirc? in fact, i'm afraid to say, i consider you to be a risky situation on legs!:-O

'leave my blog alone.'
i do find your posts interesting and literate, that expose me to stuff that i might not otherwise think about though and amusing... occasionally!:-D

[fpb.livejournal.com]

http://fpb.livejournal.com/250748.html

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232087/Gary-McFarlane-Christian-counsellor-refused-gay-couples-sex-advice-fails-religious-discrimination-claim.html
surprised you haven't commented on this. i wonder what duke amarchee is gonna do when he discovers his job was all about the housing acts?

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I don't have to comment on every act of criminality by the loathsome frauds who are dragging this country into the abyss. I have made it very clear what I think of them, and this piece of criminal justice does not improve on it. We already knew that freedom of thought, speech, expression and belief were a dead letter in this country, but then a country which allows by law human-animal hybridization has already gone well beyond tyranny and into the realm of delirious inhumanity.

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

btw i quite like caroline flint, william hague, david miliband and shami chakrabati, when she's not being marginalized and placed between lunatics:-) of course, this has nothing to do with respect, blind adoration, etc

[fpb.livejournal.com]

If you like David Milliband, you are deeper in a state of delusion than I thought. The man is a fucking embarrassment. As for the rest - at least an argument may be made for them.

[panobjecticon.livejournal.com]

there's no accounting for taste, apparently i'm in a minority, loathing the beatles and bob dylan in equal measure.

Just out of interest...

[pathology-doc.livejournal.com]

While you're busily watching the pruning of the upper echelons of British society (the prunability of which I'm not intending to debate - you're there and I'm not), would you try to spare this fellow (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/)?

We have a similar problem here - the Government is the equivalent of a ballroom dancer with two left feet, and the Opposition has no strong suit in finance and economics (one of the leading lights retired; the other crossed the floor to vote with the Government on a matter that split his party and saw him dumped as leader).

I'm not sure I could watch them all go to the block with equanimity, but I'm frighteningly close to believing that political parties should be obliged by law to preselect their candidates on the basis of being vocationally trained to fill particular Cabinet positions one day, if not actually supporting the concept of a meritocratic oligarchy.

I mourn the decline of Britain.

(BTW, my icon is in reference to the craziness of the situation, and should not be implied as referring to yourself or your viewpoint.)

Re: Just out of interest...

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I am radically pro-European, like most of my countrymen, and the glee of the British and American right every time there is a remote chance that something might go wrong with the process of European union disgusts me. So, no, Mr.Hannan is not one of my favourite people, although I will give him credit for not being an empty suit like nearly every other British politician. That is why he stands out. Having said that, I feel like the great Italian patriot Carlo Cattaneo, who, having fought all his life in the front line for a free and united Italy, died in exile in Switzerland because he could not stomach the means by which Italian union had been achieved. The European institutions are both inefficuent and undemocratic, and their leadership is disgracefully unwilling to shoulder the responsibilities of a rising superpower.

Re: Just out of interest...

[pathology-doc.livejournal.com]

I can see your viewpoint, and I respect it even if I disagree. The EU seems to have become a monster; and if you think that it is inefficient and undemocratic, then as it lies, maybe it deserves to fail (hopefully only in a bureaucratic manner - we've had quite enough European wars between 1792 and now, thank you!). This doesn't mean the concept isn't worthy, but if the execution is so terrible then maybe "hoping for failure" isn't uniformly a bad thing.

Personally, I suspect that Europe (even Western Europe) is so culturally and politically diverse that anything more than a blanket free trade and defence agreement and a common currency is asking too much.

Re: Just out of interest...

[fpb.livejournal.com]

You might say the same about Italy. If you had any idea of the immense difference between Venice, Piedmont, the Rome area, Abruzzo, Naples, and Sicily (to mention only a few), you would wonder they could be together for ten minutes. And it will have been 150 years this autumn.