troubling situation

[fpb]

I generally take no interest whatever in the people who tried (when I knew nothing whatever about them) to make me a fandom wolf's-head. However, there have recently been some violent ructions whose echoes reached me through friends. This has made me curious; and, following up a series of fairly vile LJ entries, I have made a discovery that troubles me greatly.

Molly Moon suffers from a frightful, probably incurable and certainly hideously painful condition.

Let us get things straight. This is the person who (edited)was the first to rush in with the GAY BAR witch-hunt. She has spent months lying about me and misrepresenting me. She has done her best to turn all her friends against me, and a number of the people who are on my never-speak-to-again list have got there because of her incitement. I have not read, and will not read, her fic "featuring" me; but the fact that Chthonia, who knew nothing about the whole matter, was stunned by its contents, tells all that needs saying. This is a person whom I have banned from this LJ as soon as I knew how, and whose "anonymous" posts I have been deleting for months. This is a person whose behaviour towards me (and, I gather, towards one or two other people) I can only describe as despicable.

At the same time, she is in the kind of condition with which, had I known, I would have not wasted a second in offering sympathy and any help I could.

This does not make her behaviour any less putrid. Let us not forget that (edited)she threw herself into the GAY BAR witchhunt with enthusiasm, without making any attempt to understand what it was about and what I was about, at a time when I knew nothing whatsoever about her; she was inspired purely and simply by the need to hate, to find a target for some inner fury that has nothing to do with me, to persecute and misrepresent and tear down. (Incidentally, madam, I have only a BA and am self-taught in all essential areas from Latin to drawing. This for the record.) It may even have something to do with her condition; although I have known many disabled people (having had a little to do with disabled organizations and pro-life groups) and many, perhaps most, of them, however terrible their condition or their pain, were sweet, open-minded, kindly and untroubled souls. I suppose that pain may make you better, or may make you worse.

And here I am. I would be a fool if I forgot what this person has actually done, what she is still both capable and willing to do; at the same time, I really have a violent personal reaction against doing or saying anything against her, because I feel very strongly that birds with broken wings should not get extra kicks. This is my situation.

Let me however say that the other people who involved themselves up to their necks in the witch-hunt, especially the odious person who signs herself with the significant name Narcissa Malfoy, have no such excuse. I feel no compunction whatever about labelling this egotistical, lying, emotional-blackmailing drama queen for the scum she is. And I will be glad to go on doing so.

EDITSomeone whom I have no compunction at all about deleting sent a post full of inaccuracies and persecution-minded nonsense. There was however one statement there that I have also received from another source, namely that Molly Moon did not actually start the GAY BAR witch-hunt, she was only the first to publish. OK. But the rest of the charges stand, and I know for a fact that she has chosen to take the above remarks as insulting. Evidently her hatred for me is too precious a thing to forego lightly - another reason, perhaps, to feel sorry for her.

Comments

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[fpb.livejournal.com]

And this is the person who would defend us from censorship. "An astonishing level of negativity towards homosexuals." Sure. One homosexual in the story (Harry) is unhappy, so of course "being gay involves an essentially self-destructive lifestyle". He is unhappy at this particular time, as he has been dumped, so of course it is "essentially self-destructive". And, my dear sweet Jesus in Heaven, she takes Draco seriously when he starts rambling about how if only they'd known... Tell me, were you drunk when you read the story? Because you clearly did not understand the first thing that went on. Or was "your own bisexual nature" prejudicing you so much that mere mention of a gay bar and leathers immediately made it impossible for you to understand that "the side of good [had] fall[en]" because of "Harry being Gay", when I made it as clear as it is possible to be that Voldemort was dead and that Harry had triumphed? The level of inaccuracy, prejudice and lack of attention in this so-called review is frightening, and I certainly don't want any other work of mine to suffer the same attention.

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

At no point did I say I would censor your story, or that it should be taken down, or that it merited a witch-hunt, or anything except that I thought it had a negative portrayal of homosexuals and that I personally would avoid reading it. Nothing more.

Yes, I took Draco seriously when he rambles about if only they'd known; wasn't he intended to be taken seriously? It certainly reads that way. No, gay bars and leathers don't prejudice me; I'm familliar with both. It's the last paragraph that throws all the rest into question. I did see that Harry had triumphed and Voldemort was dead, but that's not the point. The point is that Draco repeats that they could have saved the Dark Lord if they'd known Harry was gay. I'm sure you just mean that this would have given them a weapon to use against Harry, a weak point they could have exploited to prevent him from winning, but the way it's written feels as though the story's moral is that being gay is evil. I'm sorry but I can't see it any other way. You told me to read your fic for myself and see if there was a negtive portrayal; I think there is, even if that wasn't your intentions. I'm sorry you don't like the criticism--I wouldn't either--but it's my honest opinion, which you requested. It's not a matter of inaccuracy or lack of attention, it's a matter of how the story appears to a reader who doesn't know your motivations. It looks different outside of your head; all stories do, which is the main hazard of writing anything.

Finally, I don't drink. I've never been drunk. I have alcoholics in my family and that is a very sensitive accusation with me, just as much as your reaction to being aligned with the Mafia, and I really don't appreciate the implication. I have tried my hardest to be rational and reasonable and give you the benefit of the doubt, even though you hate many of my friends and vice-versa. I've talked politely with you and have never, ever, ever offered you an intentional insult. You keep seeing insults I don't intend. I don't know if you've been made over-antagonistic by your treatment from everyone else or what, but I don't appreciate it, and if that's how you're going to continue to act there's no point in my trying to talk with you anymore, because I'm exhausted from the effort of trying to demonstrate that I don't have a bad opinion of you, particularly since you don't seem to believe it. If you'd rather just dismiss me as another evil-minded maniac, tell me now and let me stop trying to prove otherwise. Given all the unwarranted insults you've offered me today--at least one of which you have admitted yourself was indeed unwarranted--I'm beginning to wonder why I bother. Just today, you've accused me of hypocrisy (I never said anything you've written should be banned or censored!), slander (though you retracted that one), prejudice, inattention, inaccuracy...and those last three just for a review of a story, and a review that contained no personal insults whatsoever? The personal insults have all been on your side. If this is how you treat the people you call friends, no wonder your enemies have such a field day.

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[fpb.livejournal.com]

That "there is no point in my continuing to talk to you anymore" is a conclusion I had reached before this mailing, as I said in a response to someone else. We have nothing in common, and nothing to offer each other; and it's not to do with being an "evil-minded maniac", but with the basic assumptions that you accept. And I am getting increasingly tired of having to translate plain English.

I regret to hear that mention of drunkenness should be so painful to you. But my reaction to your review would have been along the same lines anyway: if not "were you stoned?" then, "were you hallucinating?" or "are you sure you don't have a high fever?" So wholly irrelevant did what you wrote seem to what I have written. As for the comment on defending from censorship, it certainly had something to do with what seemed to me your obvious prejudice, but much more with the sheer lack of perception.

Someone else before you took Draco seriously. I answered: "I don’t know about you, but I have met enough old Fascists and former army and navy commanders going on about how they could have won the War and defeated the Allies, but for the treachery of This, the stupidity of That, the feeble-heartedness of The Other. Of course there is no logic: this is the pure, gratuituous fantasizing of someone not only defeated but outdated, gnawing in the dark at his old delusions in vain. I thought I had dropped a strong enough hint that Draco lived in a world of constant self-deception, when I had him, within three sentences of each other, first notice with concern that Harry had Quidditch muscles – when he efficiently knocked out that other guy – and then, when he has used magic to smash him down, threaten him “next time I’ll use my fists.” He is talking nonsense, and Harry knows it (“delicate little Draco”): hand to hand, he would not stand a chance against Harry. Yet, he has worked himself up almost to believing his absurd brag..."

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

The annoying thing is we have a many things in common, at least as regards respect for good authors and good classical music. But I can relate to your irritation at having to translate plain English, since I've been trying very hard to do the same thing and apparently failing.

You did not in my opinion drop a strong enough hint that Draco lives in a world of constant self-deception; rather the reverse, actually. He comes across as being quite clear-minded and rational. We have no reason to believe Harry's perception of "delicate little Draco" as being incapable of knocking him done or such is incorrect, particularly since Harry himself is very drunk and his opinion cannot carry much weight. We see Draco as a fairly capable adult; there is not enough evidence to demonstrate that he is otherwise. Perhaps I and others fail to see your point because we are not old enough to be familliar with former fascists and those who go on and on about how they could have won the War but for such-and-such; it's not an attitude with which I am familliar, so of course I could not have picked up on it. I'd hardly call my reaction prejudiced or unperceptive in that case, merely very uninformed, which I cannot help, not knowing how I needed to be informed before I read the fic. If you added a preface stating that such experience would be helpful, perhaps so many people wouldn't jump to the wrong conclusion.

I repeat: the personal insults have thus far all been on your side, and I would appreciate an apology. An impersonal negative review of a story is no excuse for personal attacks. Given how much you dislike such attacks from others, I'd have thought you'd be more careful of throwing them out yourself.

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[fpb.livejournal.com]

We do have nothing to say to each other. Contrary to a widespread delusion, a common respect for good books and music is not enough to share a common set of values; were that the case, a good few Nazis would have been counted decent guys. And I do understand that my language is violent and intemperate. Believe me, I regret it. I apologize for the times you felt insulted; but not for telling you that as far as I am concerned your review had next to nothing to do with my story.

Re: I'm probably going to regret saying anything about this but I never know when to keep my mouth s

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

I don't deny that my review had next to nothing to do with your story; the reason is because my youth and background render me incapable of understanding the perspective that led you to write the story, so of course I jumped to the wrong conclusions. Keep in mind, I'm from America; of course I'm not familliar with the attitude of "If we'd done this, we'd have won The War." We did win that war. That's my point. It's not that I was prejudiced and deliberately misunderstanding you, it's that I am entirely unfamilliar with the mindset that inspired you to write it. I could not have understood your point without it being explained to me. Nor, I suspect, could most of the Harry Potter fanbase, since the majority of them are 1) from America and Great Britain, and 2) fairly young and thus not likely to have experience speaking to naval commanders and the like.

That declared, it's true we have nothing more to say to each other. Good luck in your future endeavors, particularly in improving your methods of expressing yourself, and good bye.

i do too. *wanks*

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

We have no reason to believe Harry's perception of "delicate little Draco" as being incapable of knocking him done or such is incorrect, particularly since Harry himself is very drunk and his opinion cannot carry much weight. We see Draco as a fairly capable adult; there is not enough evidence to demonstrate that he is otherwise. Perhaps I and others fail to see your point because we are not old enough to be familliar with former fascists and those who go on and on about how they could have won the War but for such-and-such; it's not an attitude with which I am familliar, so of course I could not have picked up on it.

I would just like to add, because for some inexplicable reason I clicked on this fic also, that whether or not you were old enough to be a Nazi *pinches your cheeks*, you still wouldn't have been able to tell that Draco was supposed to be self-deluded, because the basic idea behind his self-delusion is that homosexuality is something to be avoided at all costs.

And since the entire surrounding atmosphere of the fic both portrays and promotes that idea, from Harry's unhappiness to the sleazy atmosphere of the bar, to the come-ons and the "we'll get your children" taunts (my god), all without a single expression of tongue-in-cheek parody about it, there was no *possible* way you could have picked up on that critique of Draco. The only way we can conclude he is wrong about himself is if we see that he is *WRONG*. Instead we see him surrounded by scary gay predators.

The only clear self-delusion I find here is that on the part of the author who believes that there is anything slightly inoffensive or less than blatantly homophobic about this fic.



--Aja, who is not drunk

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[fpb.livejournal.com]

But who is so prejudiced, narrow-minded, and utterly incapable of reading anything except through the black glasses of her hatred, that her reading is worth about as much as that of an Al Quaeda member. YOu pathetic ignorant fool, Harry was drunk; not only drunk, but viciously and aggressively drunk; not only viciously drunk, but gone to that place exactly in order to get drunk. And you take his insults to Draco seriously? You pompous fool, they are the ordinary currency of barroom brawls. Either you have never seen an angry drunk, or you were so desperate to find things to complain about that you deliberately phased the obvious out. "Surrounded by scary gay predators?" Ye gods. Who, except for Harry, says a word or performs an act that could remotely be interpreted as an approach? One man gets a fist in his face from Harry for trying to prevent him insulting Draco and Pansy; and everyone else is as embarrassed as Draco himself. These are normal people, embarrassed as people in a pub usually are by the antics of a rabid drunk who ought to have been thrown out half an hour ago. But you are so keen to insult me that you insult and misrepresent all my characters. As for calling me a Nazi, you do not even deserve response. But I will remember the kind of critic you are. And for the record, you are banned. I do not want to so much be reminded that anything as foul and yes, masturbatory as you exists.

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[ari-o.livejournal.com]

You are the nastiest person I have come across in ages. You use so many words to say so little and spew such hatred and it all feels like a sad ploy to get people to read your fics.

You really should just stop before you give yourself an ulcer.

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Kind of silly, really. Nobody had posted to this thread since yesterday. Then this person comes along and just has to drip her drop of poison.

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[ari-o.livejournal.com]

You have said nasty things to me in the past - and I can let that go - but when you attack friends of mine, I have to draw the line.

Betch you've already banned me

But if you haven't - and before you do - please seek therapy.

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Hmm. She seems to be under the impression that the attack was unprovoked. And she advises others to seek therapy.

Re: i do too. *wanks*

[brimful.livejournal.com]

♥♥♥♥♥

:D

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I found myself nodding along with Ashfae's statements throughout, because she pointed out the very same things I did in email, only that she was by far more eloquent, and a lot more gentle.

Seeing that this reaction is practically universal in your readership, you might consider that there truly *is* a problem in communication with this fic.

Without trying to force-feed you linguistic theory (I'll live a happy life never having to look at one again), there is a vast difference between authorial intent and reader response. For that very reason I'm so grateful for beta-readers: they give me an impression of what works in a story, and how things come across in advance. Having readers continually misunderstand the point you're trying to bring across *is* painful (I'm sitting on a piece at the moment which makes perfect sense in my head, but everybody who's read it so far either misinterpreted what I was trying to say, or stated plainly it made no sense). But it made me conclude that there is a problem with my plot, not that everybody else is too blinkered to see the point.

As Ashfae has pointed out, it is that way with 'Gay Bar'. Now I never assumed you wrote that intentionally as an assault on homosexuality. But I can understand why people read it as such. For someone with strong feelings about the issues, and perhaps personal experiences with stereotyping, it is easy to jump the gun and take Draco's PoV at face value. There are some very troublesome bits in Harry's characterisation that I find incompatible with his character (I'd never say that he couldn't lash out horribly when drunk, but not in that direction), but the crucial point is Draco's PoV. You explain that Draco is deluded at the end and throughout, but that did not occur to me at first reading, and I had to hear your explanation and re-read it with that in mind to be able to see that angle. And even then, it did not convince me. Draco is the narrator, and the victim, the sober husband and father pitted against a threat to himself and his children, and there just isn't enough for us to draw on so that we don't take the ending at face value.

I'm perfectly sure the development makes sense to *you*, but that point does not make it across on the page. That happens, to the best of us. I would not say so blatantly that it doesn't work if I had seen *anyone* read it according to your interpretation (I hate to generalise on my subjective opinions), but if no one sees it the way you do, there just *might* be a problem with the story, not the readership...

Of course that should by no means stop you from posting it - but you are aware that your readers are going to misread your intention and react with everything between mild distaste and full-blown outrage, depending on their personality and experiences. Or you could, of course, revise it so that it brings out the point you want to make in a way that is transparent for the readers. As I hinted before, developing Harry's PoV and using it as a counterbalance might be a way - also perhaps a way to bring out Draco' delusions more clearly). I mean, what sense is there in martyring yourself over a point that you don't even want to make?

I don't think I've ever written you an unfair put down review before; some of your stories are great, a lot are good, a few are just too fluffy/not on themes I personally enjoy, but only *one* does definitely not work. And this is it.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

People did. And has it occurred to you that I DO NOT want to communicate with the sort of people who wish me, say, homosexual rape?

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. If people had, at the beginning, taken the courteous road that you, Ashfae, and another person - three in all - did, I might have thought about recasting the damn thing. You know that I asked for your opinion at one point. But as the beginning of almost every review but yours is with a heartfelt wish for my evisceration or less pleasant things, then I fucking well tell you and everyone else that the fic stays. Because my estimate is that the extremely vast majority of the people who object to it are thugs, and I will not do anything to appease them. End of story.

[(Anonymous)]

But isn't this a matter not of appeasing the thugs who object to the story, but of ceasing to misrepresent yourself? The thugs who attack you are appeased by your hatred and stubbornness because that's what they want to believe you are. You didn't write that story with any intention of gay-bashing, so if you edit it to make that more clear, you actually would appease new readers who will then read your story without misunderstanding what you wanted to say, giving them a chance to read the story you wanted to tell. The thugs, far from being pleased, will instead have lost their original excuse for the war they so seem to love waging against you, and you will have shown yourself capable of accepting criticism (not mindless insults, but the evenhanded criticism you have gotten, rare as it was) with an open mind.

If you'd rather leave it as it is, that's certainly your choice. But it seems a shame to abandon a fic that could be quite good with a bit more work.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Good point. I'll think about it.