After a friend printed a misguided defence of abortion (from her comments thread)

[fpb]

Rephrase your premise as follows:
I don't agree with abortions... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with rape... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with burglary... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with assault... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with embezzlement... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with fraud... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.
I don't agree with forced marriage... but if they're going to happen (which they will), they need to be safe and legal.

etc., etc., etc.....

Excuse me, if something is wrong, why the Hell should it be safe and legal, only because "it's going to happen"? Crime is always "going to happen". That is the point of having laws. We do not have laws against something which, though wrong, is never going to happen (e.g. there is no law against stealing someone's soul). The point of having a law against it is to state that it is a disapproved and forbidden activity, and that, if you are caught (which, alas, will not always be the case), you will be punished. This trash about "it's going to happen anyway" is simply something that abortionists repeat ad nauseam, on the principle that if we hear a statement often enough we're going to take it for granted.

Comments

[headnoises.livejournal.com]

I have a strong opinion that if you do not have a uterus, you are not allowed to make decisions about what can and cannot be done with one.

As the daughter of a father, I denounce you as a sexist.

As the sister of a woman who lost a child, and whose husband was horribly hurt by that loss, I denounce you as sexist.

I say we DO have the right to say what people should do, when there is another's life on the line-- just as I am not allowed to kill those who inconvenience me outside of the womb, it should not be allowed to kill humans before birth.

There is a horrible, ugly irony to outlawing suicide, but allowing the killing of small humans at will.

Rape is a very rare factor in pregnancy. For that matter, if the idea of failing as a parent makes you want to kill the child, give the child away-- there are enough folks looking for a baby that the BFN newspaper in my folks' home town has an entire section for it.

As for the statement of incest-- how is death preferable to being inbred?

How is ANY source of birth worse than not being alive?

Many women have listened to folks who they SHOULD have been able to trust, and taken the "easy" way out. Easy in the short term-- in the long term, it tears folks apart. There are a ton of studies on suicides among those who had abortions, and other mental problems, so I won't butcher the information here.

I found it rather telling that the Roe of Roe v Wade is now a pro-life activist.

All of the pro-life groups I know have areas dedicated to helping folks who were scared and made a bad choice. Do a search for "post abortion counseling" and see if there's someone who you can talk to--if you have a desire.
Most of them are Christian. That means that they will tell you that you did do wrong, but you can be forgiven. There is NOTHING in existence that cannot be forgiven, if you truly repent.

For what it is worth? My first relationship, alone and lonely and far from home, was with a guy who used me for my body. Luckily, I bored him before I became pregnant or had other complications. Two other men followed, who also used me for their desires, because I was lonely and vulnerable---although I managed to avoid letting them use me as fully.
I *did* have frights.
I *did* consider what I would do, if I was with child.
I ended up where I started--my mom was a teacher with a major in animal husbandry; I understood reproduction (at least as far as a fetus and birth are involved) before I connected it to "where babies come from." I could NOT make myself believe-- in the way a lot of folks who don't have my background are able-- that a fetus isn't human, or isn't "really" alive.
Thus, I had to face the fact that I was considering the MURDER of my own child. The medical slaughter of the blood of my blood. It was amazingly effective.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Whew! This thread has taken a life of its own. headnoises, I agree with you, of course, but I wish you had started your post in a less aggressive way. "I denounce you..." - does that sound like a way to get someone else to agree? What is wrong with: "if we grant point one, and if we grant point two, surely you must see that the argument you make is sexist"? I am not the right person to pass this on, but you should remember that a person who is not stupid can make a stupid statement, that a person who is not cheap or vulgar can make a cheap statement or perform a vulgar act.

I am being a bit selfish, here, too. prylliepwns is my friend, and I do not want to risk losing her because, if she visits my LJ, she runs the risk of being mauled by people who disagree with her. I am and have long been perfectly well aware that she disagrees with me on this issue, and I still am fond of her. I hope one day she may change her mind, but please bear in mind that this is an issue where people bear very strong and very personal feelings. It may interest you that she is the mother of two or three, I am not sure which, young children. So, even if you want to argue on my side, please argue in such a way as not to insult your opponent. I repeat: I know that I am not the best person to deliver this omily; but then, I can as much bear witness to its truth as a drunkard to the ruinousness of alcohol.

[headnoises.livejournal.com]

Yes, I do reply rather strongly-- mostly because it infurates me to see someone trying to block others from even having a view, just because they're the wrong sex. I'd react just as strongly if someone tried to argue that women could NOT have a view on abortion, because self-intrest made them unable to be objective.

I will hold back in the future on your blog, though.

[jezreelite.livejournal.com]

How is ANY source of birth worse than not being alive?

[headnoises.livejournal.com]

http://www.hawking.org.uk/home/hindex.html
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461519079/stephen_william_hawking.html

And nevermind that most children are aborted so their "lives" won't be so horrible, not because of any deformity.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

So, to this creature, being born ugly is worse than not being born. I am sorry I banned it already, because if I had got to this first, I would have had a few more things to say. Vicious, evil little piece of slime - and what a fine argument for retroactive abortion.

[headnoises.livejournal.com]

FPB, I thank you for the honor of knowing that others know I would NEVER be dishonored by the response to such scum that think that "ugly" is worse than "dead".

May they suffer a thousand scaring accidents.

May they suffer a thousand acne-induced bad face-days.

As my (non-Catholic) husband states, may they realize that no moral has a right to choose who lives and who dies.