As regards sectarianism, I think you give the planning abilities of the 'elites' too much credit here. And again I think you over-simplify Irish history a touch.... Always more of a class issue than a religious one as the rural presbyterian community were never popular with the english government either - and pre the Williamite Wars were almost equally as supressed as the catholic population - indeed the leader of the Fenian uprising, Wolfe Tone was a presbyterian.
I'm interested in knowing how you think religion should be taught in schools? And how that education should deal with the children of those who do not believe, or believe differently and do not want their children to be taught christianity as a truth. Do you think that is an acceptable position?
And how you think you think the BBC and others should reflect the opinions of those who do not believe?
I obviously see the world very differently from you, Religious education was an everyday part of my schooling from the age of 4. It is a part of my daughter's education now in the same way, and the assumption is that her family, and she, believes in God. Indeed, Religious Education and an act of Christian Worship remain the only part of the curriculem that is mandatory for all schools in Northern Ireland. There is no part in her education for the idea that god does not exist, although other religions are mentioned - which is natural when there are Muslims and Hindus in the class.
I have no objection to this, but I know others who do. I'd prefer education to be secular, with responsibility for religious education lieing with the churches, but the bible and the history of the Christian faith should be taught as a fundimental part of our society. For myself, ceaseing to believe in God, did nothing to remove my admiration of the basic teachings of the Christian religion and I would be happy to be seen as a secular follower of Christ.
As to the one-sidedness of fanaticism and intolerance of atheists. I simply don't see it. I think there are probably just as many intolerant and ignorant statements coming from those who profess belief as from those who do not. Again I wonder if we each notice and gauge intolerance differently because of our respective opinions. I may tend to write-off and ignore the extreme ramblings of those who proclaim atheism without thought or knowledge of what it is they say they don't believe in, I suspect you do the same with the lunatics on the religious side - you've already identified the Jack T Chick brigade in another post.
I have to be honest, that your comments here are very similar to comments I might have made myself, but reversing the positions. So it has made me reconsider things a little.
Sorry, I do not have the time - I have an ugent job to do. I will only offer you two staring-points for thought.
You assume, One That it is possible to have education, or indeed thought, without any kind of religion, and Two, That religion is to do with God or worship. I would suggest that both assumptions are wrong, and that the first is wrong because the second is wrong.
I'd have to say that I think the first assumption can only be false if the second is also false. To understand this i'll have to understand what you mean by religion. I also think that while I have indeed made the first assumption, i'm not sure that I have made the second.
Fascinating - i'm enjoyiong this even more now. Good luck with the urgent job.
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Date: 2008-04-10 07:45 am (UTC)I'm interested in knowing how you think religion should be taught in schools? And how that education should deal with the children of those who do not believe, or believe differently and do not want their children to be taught christianity as a truth. Do you think that is an acceptable position?
And how you think you think the BBC and others should reflect the opinions of those who do not believe?
I obviously see the world very differently from you, Religious education was an everyday part of my schooling from the age of 4. It is a part of my daughter's education now in the same way, and the assumption is that her family, and she, believes in God. Indeed, Religious Education and an act of Christian Worship remain the only part of the curriculem that is mandatory for all schools in Northern Ireland. There is no part in her education for the idea that god does not exist, although other religions are mentioned - which is natural when there are Muslims and Hindus in the class.
I have no objection to this, but I know others who do. I'd prefer education to be secular, with responsibility for religious education lieing with the churches, but the bible and the history of the Christian faith should be taught as a fundimental part of our society. For myself, ceaseing to believe in God, did nothing to remove my admiration of the basic teachings of the Christian religion and I would be happy to be seen as a secular follower of Christ.
As to the one-sidedness of fanaticism and intolerance of atheists. I simply don't see it. I think there are probably just as many intolerant and ignorant statements coming from those who profess belief as from those who do not. Again I wonder if we each notice and gauge intolerance differently because of our respective opinions. I may tend to write-off and ignore the extreme ramblings of those who proclaim atheism without thought or knowledge of what it is they say they don't believe in, I suspect you do the same with the lunatics on the religious side - you've already identified the Jack T Chick brigade in another post.
I have to be honest, that your comments here are very similar to comments I might have made myself, but reversing the positions. So it has made me reconsider things a little.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 09:28 am (UTC)You assume,
One
That it is possible to have education, or indeed thought, without any kind of religion, and
Two,
That religion is to do with God or worship.
I would suggest that both assumptions are wrong, and that the first is wrong because the second is wrong.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-10 10:35 am (UTC)I'd have to say that I think the first assumption can only be false if the second is also false. To understand this i'll have to understand what you mean by religion. I also think that while I have indeed made the first assumption, i'm not sure that I have made the second.
Fascinating - i'm enjoyiong this even more now. Good luck with the urgent job.