Thanks. It was sarcasm, but I cannot imagine for instance Aerynalexander jumping for joy because our terrorist brothers missed me. You are different, of course.
There was sarcasm in that "brothers", just as there was in the suggestion that some people would rather see me dead. You seem to have missed them in both places. But there is an important point there, too.
I regard these people as the enemy, their religion as the enemy's ideology, and our job here and now to fight them wherever they are and yeld nothing, either physically or morally, to them. We are at war. We have to win it, and that means not being too squeamish about such things as Guantanamo Bay, not accept the lies of the enemy about terrorism being generated by porverty and injustice - most terrorists are educated and, like Osama Bin Laden and Mohammad Atta, come from the leading classes in their native countries - and rejecting all notions of moral equivalence and all doubts that our cause is just. It is.
But at the same time, there is talk going around the internet that I do not like - burn the mosques, deport all Muslims, etc. Wars are not won by brutality; wars are not won by killing people - that just makes the others more obstinate (as our terrorist friends are going to find). Wars are won by convincing the enemy to stop fighting - it's as simple as that. If you do it by winning battles, all well and good; if you can do it by other means, even better. And in this case, to stop the enemy from fighting, you have to show that our cause, our behaviour, our culture, our religions, our beliefs, our attitudes, our institutions, our laws, our principles, are better than theirs. They are fighting for a view of the world; they and their supporters must be convinced that it is wrong and that ours is better. To act worse than them is hardly the way to do it.
To some people, this war we are caught in is an excuse to let loose the worst of their character and have fun cultivating murderous hatred and obscene vanity. To me, it is a reason to confirm our allegiance to the values of our culture. They are what we are fighting for, and we will not win unless they do.
Well-said, though I should stress that the Muslims I know - one, a close friend - are as horrified and disgusted by these things as the rest of us. Whenever something like this happens, I just get so frustrated with the world, and with people, because even people I like and respect start saying stupid things like "See? And you were saying we should stop locking illegal immigrants in detention centres! Look what'll happen if you let them out!"
And it all just seems to go on and on, endlessly. :(
One of my dearest net friends is Kikei, who is Muslim. However, it is my view that, although we are not necessarily fighting Muslims, we are certainly fighting Islam. I think that those people who, like Kikei, do not believe that Islam entails war, are good human beings, but not necessarily good Muslims. They read their own noble moral instincts in their religion and imagine that they are getting them from it, when in fact they are taking them to it. To remove jihad from Islam would entail rewriting or editing out about one-fifth of the Qur'an and disregarding the example of Muhammad, who fought several dozen wars in his lifetime; neither can be done without ripping the heart of the religion out. Many people want to do it, or else do it without thinking about it, but I think that when they do that they are moving away from what Islam really is - which is a religion with a political message and a code of laws to impose - into a kind of bland Unitarianism, morally exemplary, of course, but without the anger and titanism and fire of real Islam, and therefore bound to lose.
I'm not sure if I agree with that, given what I know about my friends and their beliefs, but I won't argue since I am not well-informed on the subject. There are, of course, some people who think that all religion entails violence and "convert everyone else to our way of thinking or destroy them". Not a view I agree with but... sigh. These arguments make me feel exhausted before I've even had them.
Not at all. I'm happy to say all my friends in London are safe, although one was working very close to the place of attacks. He usually goes to work by the attacked route. BTW, would you mind emailing me, so I get your current working address? The one I have in the address book is defunct.
I don't like you much, but I really don't want you dead. As a matter of fact, I'm rather happy you're alive (it's way more fun to get flamed by an articulate person). Marie, the Girl-Who-Is-Ignorant-About-Crusades
I am ashamed to say, I do not know - or at least, do not remember - what this is about. It does not help that I have had rows about the Crusades more than once. But thanks for the kind feelings. The "bad news" thing was mostly sarcasm, you know - well, except for the people who have expressed a desire that I should suffer homosexual rape.
Dunno about that, apparently Denmark, Norway and Italy are next on al-Qaida's list. But what do I know? :( Where I live is as safe as you can get in the Western World, though - and I know to appreciate that. But those poor people on the bus...
That was a joke anyway. I don't like the idea of being in a war, but I have been there before and am of no mind to run if it turns out to be dangerous. I don't think Norway was mentioned. Denmark pissed off the terrorists by implementing an anti-Islamic immigration and integration policy, and Italy by sending troops to Iraq. Norway has not, to the best of my knowledge, done either of these things.
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of confusion in the media up here (not that I blame them) - in the letter mentioned by Der Spiegel only Denmark and Italy are mentioned.
Well, you've never been the one to run away when things get messy. :) Glad you're all right.
Well, I grew up during the first "golden age" of terrorism in the seventies, with the Red Brigades conducting targeted assassinations of policemen, politicians, industrialists and journalists, the Fascists bombing civilian crowds, and the Palestinians hijacking planes and ships and killing Israeli civilians. I was drafted at the height of the struggle against terrorism, and once, as a soldier, I came under fire - it is presumed, by criminals or terrorists. I also volunteered for Lebanon (purely for the rich combat pay), but was turned down. Then I moved to London and enjoyed the loving attention of the Irish Republican Army. What I am saying is that, while I hate what is happening, I am not surprised by it. It has happened before.
There isn't much anyone can do to "take care" against an Al Qaeda bomb, I'm afraid. I can only go on the same as I always am and hope they miss me - same as when the IRA and Italy's Fascist terrorists were playing the same game. The worst thing anyone can do in this war is let him/herself get scared.
THANK GOD!!!!!! vedi mio livejournal >.< ero così preoccupata, e tu ti permetti pure di fare spirito e dire che è una BRUTTA notizia che stai bene??????????????????????
Actually, as I said to other friends, it is something I am kind of used to. I grew up in Italy in the seventies, became acquainted with the Red Brigades, the PLO, Fascist bombers, and the Mafia, then moved to Britain in time to witness such things as the Brighton bomb of 1984. Terrorism may anger me, but it does not shake me that much - I am unfortunately used to the idea of cruel and relentless enemies that only total defeat can tame.
As with everyone else who has been sweet enough to post and show concern, thank you very much. It's nice to have people who worry if you live or die.
The latest news is that at least forty people have died, and a few more are in a desperate condition. Even so, the terrorists bungled their massacre. The explosions all took place within metres of major hospitals - the bus explosion actually on the front door of the British Medical Association - so help was prompt, abundant and effective. Many lives would have been lost if the bombs had been set off on train lines outside the city centre. And in the matter of civilian morale - all-important in this war - the spectacle of swift, efficient, authoritative intervention by the rescue services served rather to calm than to terrify the population. The enemy communique' about "Britain burning and terrified from east to west" is about as crassly wrong as it is possible to be. The country is calm, and the worst fear of politicians is violence against Muslims, not the kind of fear that seized Spain after the Madrid outrage and put in power a gutless pro-Arab government that promptly gave the terrorists everything they wanted.
Nice to see you're still characteristically pissed off, showing that nothing's changed is a great way of letting the terrorists know they haven't got to you.
And yeah, I was worried about you: glad to hear you're all right.
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-Kiks
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(Anonymous) 2005-07-07 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)Though, if you consider those dreadful people your brothers, I'm both a bit worried and confused.
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("I am a man, nothing human is foreign to me.")
There was sarcasm in that "brothers", just as there was in the suggestion that some people would rather see me dead. You seem to have missed them in both places. But there is an important point there, too.
I regard these people as the enemy, their religion as the enemy's ideology, and our job here and now to fight them wherever they are and yeld nothing, either physically or morally, to them. We are at war. We have to win it, and that means not being too squeamish about such things as Guantanamo Bay, not accept the lies of the enemy about terrorism being generated by porverty and injustice - most terrorists are educated and, like Osama Bin Laden and Mohammad Atta, come from the leading classes in their native countries - and rejecting all notions of moral equivalence and all doubts that our cause is just. It is.
But at the same time, there is talk going around the internet that I do not like - burn the mosques, deport all Muslims, etc. Wars are not won by brutality; wars are not won by killing people - that just makes the others more obstinate (as our terrorist friends are going to find). Wars are won by convincing the enemy to stop fighting - it's as simple as that. If you do it by winning battles, all well and good; if you can do it by other means, even better. And in this case, to stop the enemy from fighting, you have to show that our cause, our behaviour, our culture, our religions, our beliefs, our attitudes, our institutions, our laws, our principles, are better than theirs. They are fighting for a view of the world; they and their supporters must be convinced that it is wrong and that ours is better. To act worse than them is hardly the way to do it.
To some people, this war we are caught in is an excuse to let loose the worst of their character and have fun cultivating murderous hatred and obscene vanity. To me, it is a reason to confirm our allegiance to the values of our culture. They are what we are fighting for, and we will not win unless they do.
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And it all just seems to go on and on, endlessly. :(
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*feels relieved*
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BTW, would you mind emailing me, so I get your current working address? The one I have in the address book is defunct.
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Glad you're okay.
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Marie, the Girl-Who-Is-Ignorant-About-Crusades
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As soon as I heard of it all (about a half hour ago), I thought immediately of you. I am so happy that you are safe.
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Take care!
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Madness never ends.
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I don't think Norway was mentioned. Denmark pissed off the terrorists by implementing an anti-Islamic immigration and integration policy, and Italy by sending troops to Iraq. Norway has not, to the best of my knowledge, done either of these things.
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Well, you've never been the one to run away when things get messy. :)
Glad you're all right.
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*hugs you*
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*checks another member of the flist as 'ok'*
To say that this is horrible would be redundant. But I'll say it again anyway, because I haven't any other words at the moment. What a nightmare.
*hugs*
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As with everyone else who has been sweet enough to post and show concern, thank you very much. It's nice to have people who worry if you live or die.
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And yeah, I was worried about you: glad to hear you're all right.