More symptoms of insanity on the American right

[fpb]

In yesterday's American Thinker, a man with the Italian name of Bonelli wrote the following, extremely offensive statement:

The United States is different from most other countries in many ways. One unique aspect of our country is that our elected officials, officers of the court, and the military, all pledge their allegiance to the Constitution and not to an office, individual or party. This assures continuity of the ideals set forth by the founders.

As an Italian citizen, I have personally sworn to defend the Constitution of my country when I served in the Italian army. The presumption involved in this ignorant display of insular arrogance is an insult to every constitutional government in the world.

Comments

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Other than that, well, I guess I am just lucky. I am not going to question your and mentalguy's experiences. What bothered me is that the rhetoric of conservative blogs is just as intense in England, where I really do not see much ritual mismanagement (although political spinelessness from Bishops is a constant).

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

What about the government in England forcing "equality" in teaching in Catholic schools in England? My cousin in Liverpool told me that a lot of the "Catholics" in her area that convert or have their children baptized do so that they can get a discount on tuition and their children can have First Communion (though I do not understand why they would want this for their children if they themselves are not believers).

[fpb.livejournal.com]

AS I just SAID - and please pay attention to what I actually do say - political spinelessness is a distinguishing mark of the contemporary English episcopate. (In Scotland there are still men, thank God.) That does not have anything to do with ritual mismanagement: in fact, there is nothing like a whiff of incense and a breath of Latin to convince a Blairite filth that he is holding the line instead of selling his Lord for thirty pieces of silver.

And I just don't understand the item about your cousin in Liverpool. Are you blaming the Catholic Church for having better schools than the average?

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Then you should have said that. What I was speaking about was ritual. These are kinds of treason, but different. Oddly enough, the worst offender against ritual - Cardinal Mahoney - is more firm than many more orthodox bishops in the matter of abortion. That does not excuse his various horrors, but reminds us that crimes and criminals differ.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/09/video-cardinal-mahoney-tries-to-dodge.html

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I have seen that particular video. The Cardinal was waylaid by a hostile journalist with a near-incomprehensible question, and did not answer it at all well. He is, however, the signatary of a number of radically anti-abortion letters to Congress and various bodies, as well as to his own clergy in his own diocese.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

The second part of his question was pretty straight forward. Should abortion be allowed in the health care bill? Even if he didn't know anything about it he could have answered it better. I do not take Obama at his word in this matter. That provision is still there, an amendment to make a Hyde-type amendment to the bill was voted down, as well as conscience protection was voted down. He just appeared spineless.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

P.S.: I am no fan of Mahoney. If I were Pope, he would have discovered a sudden missionary vocation to Antarctica.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

I also forgot to mention that the priests in my cousin's diocese refuse to teach NFP in marriage counseling lest people be offended. They told her that since almost all the folks are living together and will not obey the church's teachings, they just don't want to get into it. I'm not blaming the Catholic church for having better schools, I'm blaming her priests for spinelessness in allowing the church to be used.

As far as I'm concerned, if a bishop or priest allows politics or political correctness to change the makeup of what they are teaching in catechesis, it doesn't matter how ritually sound they are, for they are morally and theologically bankrupt, and the church will start to die from within, looking very nice as it goes. To me, it is one and the same problem, lack of spine, lack of orthodoxy, lack of knowing that the liturgy and the doctrine of the church together because that unity is what keeps it strong. Priests who abuse the liturgy and priests who teach heresy are only different in semantics to me. How can you separate one from the other?

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

Here is the account of my friend living in Belgium. She was my best friend during the first two years of high school. I am the friend that converted (eight years ago) and got her interested in Catholicism:

"I've been to mass now twice since I've been in Belgium. That's two times more than I have in my whole life. Some of you know that an old high school friend of mine converted to Catholicism not too long ago, and that inspired me to learn more about the Roman Catholic Church. The mass that I've been to so far has been good, and I've enjoyed the liturgy. The church here in Diest seems to actually having some living elements still left in it. This is something rare for a country that is mostly just culturally Catholic and doesn't take it's faith seriously. A short example of this would be a conversation between my husband and one of his colleagues. My husband was complaining to said colleague, N, that Catholics in this country don't have a clue what Christianity or Catholicism are all about. N begged to differ, so my husband, with great interest, asked her what she knew. Her answer amounted to, "Well, you know. God and stuff..." Most Catholics here go to baptisms, 1st communion, 2nd communion (I don't know the English name for this), weddings and funerals. Occasionally they go on holidays. Most of them don't own Bibles and don't know who or what Jesus is or did or does. It's a very sad thing.

So anyway. This Thursday we were invited to go to a friend from Dutch class's daughter's first communion. I was excited and interested. I wanted to be supportive, and I wanted to see what this important day was about. Excitement was apparently a waste of time. The church was beautiful, the children looked lovely, and the parents were well dressed and looked happy. Unfortunately, I had a hard time spotting Jesus in the ceremony. I did, however, spot their catechism teacher (although it's doubtful that the children heard anything from the catechism). She wore tight knee length shorts and tennis shoes. She had short geled spikey hair. Not only was her sexuality doubtful, but in my opinion she showed absolutely no respect for something that is supposed to be sacred. (How is it that I, as a non-Catholic, know that this was supposed to be sacred, and she does not?) The majority of the service consisted of cute children regurgitating fluffy drivel that has nothing to do with the Gospel. It did not remotely resemble the Catholocism that I've begun researching. Here are some exerpts for you translated from the Dutch:


In place of the Nicene Creed, well loved by the Church, we had...
Dear Jesus, we want to tell you something. Please listen to us.
We believe, that you love us a lot.
You love both big and small, rich and poor.
You love nice people and bad people.
We believe that you made all things.
We believe that you give us all things.

The animals, the flowers, the rain and son,
the sea, the fish and the butterflies.
You are very good for us.
Please help us a little to be like you.
Help us to always remember to think about you.

I think that we need considerably more help than just a little bit to be more like Christ. Also, why exactly was a real creed insufficient? Was the Gospel not good enough for the children?

continued...

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

We also had a story about a butterfly, going from caterpillar to butterfly. The allusion to Christ coming out from the tomb was clear to Menno and I, but what we heard instead from others, was that it was just a nice story about a butterfly. Again, they decided not to share the Gospel.

The children sang a prayer that consisted of "God listen to us and give us this and that..."

Good God, help me to stay a little butterfly, a child with a good attitude and joyful. Let us pray.

Good God, like a caterpillar bursts into a beautiful butterfly, we also want to burst for Jesus and others. Let us pray

Dear God, we are happy today. Hel p us as children to continue in goodness and tolerance

The Eucharist was thankfully a little less shallow. I also was surprised that my friend wouldn't take communion. Naturally Menno and I were not allowed, but she told us that she had been taught that confession was necessary before taking communion. Otherwise partaking of the Eucharist was inviting more sin. Now she felt it necessary to confess before a priest, but the similarity between what I had been taught and what she had been taught was striking and somewhat of a relief. Now I confess directly to God for the forgiveness of my sins, but I think it's good that she understandings that confession is a vital part of the Eucharist.

The final prayer was vapid and shallow.

Lord Jesus
When people are in love, we swy they "feel butterflies in their stomach"
We have a butterfly in our heart.
You planted it there.
We can forget the butterfly and try to smash it in other people.
We can also hide the butterfly like a costly treasure that we only want
for ourselves.
Or...We can share it with others.
Teach us to share, Lord,
to express our joy to others.
Give us wings, Lord

So exactly what is this butterfly? Give us wings? It all sounded like sentimental claptrap to me. I imagine the early church fathers are rolling over in their graves.

After the service we spent an agonizing five hours making small talk about nothing at my friend's house. The only time the service was referred to, was when they were talking about communion clothes over the years.

I know that this is not a good representation of the Catholic Church, but I have to say. It was a huge disappointment. I think even if my theology changed and I wanted to be Catholic, that I would still attend the Evangelical church here. At least I get fed there, which is more than I can say for the average Belgian Catholic Church."

[fpb.livejournal.com]

In France, you got the wrong end of the stick. The Church is left-leaning and hates traditionalism in any form because the local traditionalists are identified - and with very good reason - with the treason of Vichy. Archbishop Lefebvre himself was a devoted Petainist (even though the Nazis murdered his father) and his whole movement arose from the ultra-nationalist shadow of Action Francaise. That has made the whole French episcopate and clergy ultra-sensitive to any suspicion of traditionalism.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

So you do not think anyone runs to the traditionalists to escape the disco-dancing of the French episcopate? I understand the roots of the movement and its founders but what about its growth? What of the young families in France and here in America as well fleeing to it because they see it as a bastion that preserves the teachings and the ceremony of the church, although wrongly.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I very much doubt that there are many young families in France who are unaware of the more than dubious roots of the Lefebvrian schism, any more than there are voters for the National Front who are unaware of its politics. And the NF often polls 13%.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

Are there any schisms that do not have roots that are not dubious or somehow related to politics? That has not kept people from joining or remaining in these groups.

Families here are certainly unaware or uncaring of the roots and I would guess in other countries where they have a hold likewise.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Belgium and the Netherlands suffer from various pathologies that originate in Calvinism, Jansenism and the mercantile spirit. They also number, counted together, less than half the inhabitants of Italy.

[mentalguy.livejournal.com]

I will say that (with the obvious disclaimer that I am not Italian), from everything I've read, while the Church's political influence in Italy is considerable, the state of catechesis is rather poor.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Catechesis is never as good as it should be, but I must say that Italy has escaped the kind of thing that you and marielapin have so eloquently described. Priests may teach badly, but very few of them teach outright heresy or replace politics for religion.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

What sort of influence does the Church have then over the people if it is not that of adherence to doctrinal teaching?

Here in America roughly 25-30% (can't remember the exact number) of Americans self-identify as Catholics. Only 35% or so of them attend Mass weekly. 25% of total Catholics go to confession at least once a year. Of those 25% of self-identified Catholics you can have a good idea what their doctrinal beliefs are. They are the ones that are going to be more inclined to follow Church teaching and listen to the bishops. The rest could really care less. How is it there?

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

I also wanted to add that my friend is married to a Dutch man, who was turned off from Catholicism when a nun flat told him that God did not exist. Maybe the Church is still alive and well in Italy but it seems to be having a lot of problems in Belgium and the Netherlands. And from what I have heard about such things in France also, it is of no surprize to me that the traditionalist schismatics are so populous there.

In my own family I can also say that the quality, lack of catechesis taught by the church and in the schools as well as the lack of theological orthodoxy has caused a good portion of my husband's family to also fall away into a different traditionalist schism and heresy. It is exceedingly painful and a daily reminder of how much the church needs to heal, teach and bring its clergy and its members back into orthodoxy.

[marielapin.livejournal.com]

A combination of liturgical abuses and the teaching of heresy is what has led my husband's family away. So now they have traded in liturgical abuse and heresy for liturgical beauty and heresy. Both their liturgies and their teachings are heretical, but it just has a "whitewash" of orthodoxy that they were not getting from their own churches.

Which is why I don't see much of a difference between the two.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Belgium is where Cardinal Danneels rules. 'nuff said.